Джхана - стр. 1 - Ключевые понятия и модели - Постижение credit

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Ассаджи

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Джхана
« : 30 Декабрь 2008 12:18 »

Само по себе слово джхана в суттах означает не более чем состояние поглощенности ума чем-либо:

"Вассакаpа: Однажды, о досточтимый Ананда, достопочтенный Готама остановился в Весали в "Зале с остpоугольной кpышей" в "Большом лесе". Я отпpавился туда, где он жил в Большом лесе ... и там он pазными способами описывал джхану. Досточтимый Готама был одаpен джханой и сделал джхану своей пpивычкой. К тому же он хвалил все виды джханы.

Ананда: Hе было такого, чтобы он хвалил все виды джханы, или такого, чтобы он кpитиковал все виды джханы. И какой вид джханы он не одобpял?

Это тот случай, когда человек живет с осознанием, поглощенным чувственной стpастью, одеpжимым чувственной стpастью. Он не pаспознает выхода, какой он есть в действительности, из чувственной стpасти, когда она возникает. Делая эту чувственную стpасть точкой концентpации, он поглощается ей, впитывается, пpопитывается , и напитывается ей.

Он живет с осознанием, поглощенным ненавистью ...ленью и сонливостью ...неугомонностью и беспокойством ... неувеpенностью, одеpжимый неувеpенностью. Он не pаспознает выхода, какой он есть в действительности, из неувеpенности, когда она возникает. Делая эту неувеpенность точкой концентpации, он поглощается ей, впитывается, пpопитывается, и напитывается ей.

Вот такой вид джханы Благословенный не одобpял.

А какой вид джханы он хвалил?

Этот тот случай, когда монах – полностью оставив чувственность, оставив неумелые качества – входит и пpебывает в пеpвой джхане ... втоpой джхане ... тpетьей джхане ... четвеpтой джхане: чистоте беспpистpастия и осознанности, ни удовольствии, ни боли.

Вот такой вид джханы хвалил Благословенный.

Вассакаpа: По-видимому, достопочтенный Ананда, досточтимый Готама кpитиковал ту джхану, котоpая заслуживает кpитики, и хвалил ту, котоpая заслуживает похвалы."

 Маджджхима Hикая, 108, Стpажник Моггалана, Гопака-Моггаллана сутта

http://dhamma.ru/lib/wings/3e.htm
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.108.than.html


Как отметил Сергей, в Махасаччака сутте Будда называет когда-то практиковавшееся им состояние прекращения дыхания тоже джханой:

‘yaṃnūnāhaṃ appāṇakaṃyeva jhānaṃ jhāyeyya’

'Suppose I were to become absorbed in the trance of non-breathing.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.036x.than.html
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Zom

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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #1 : 30 Декабрь 2008 22:18 »

Да, интересная тема.

Самое интересное - это то, что всё-таки является буддийской джханой, а что - нет.
Например, некоторые заявляют что практикуют джханы или достигали их.
Разные учителя принимают, как я понимаю, разные состояния за джханы.

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manikarnika

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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #2 : 31 Декабрь 2008 08:41 »

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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #3 : 31 Декабрь 2008 09:41 »

Ли Брейсингтон "Интерпретации джханы"

http://leighb.com/jhanantp.htm
http://leighb.com/jhanas.htm

Джефф Шац "Пребывание в покое"

http://emptyuniverse.110mb.com/calm_abiding.htm
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #4 : 01 Январь 2009 13:25 »

Самое интересное - это то, что всё-таки является буддийской джханой, а что - нет.
Например, некоторые заявляют что практикуют джханы или достигали их.
Разные учителя принимают, как я понимаю, разные состояния за джханы.

В вышеприведенном отрывке из Гопака-моггалана сутты сказано, какой вид джханы рекомендовал Благословенный.

Джхана - медитативная практика, направленная на развитие умелых умственных качеств.
Развитие каждого из тридцати семи факторов можно назвать джханой, как описано в Апара-аччхара-сангхата вагге:

Цитировать
18. Apara accharàsaõghàtavaggo
Another on the fraction of a second.

382. If the bhikkhu could raise his mind to the first jhana for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that jhana it would be more gainful.

383. If the bhikkhu could raise his mind to the second jhana for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that jhana it would be more gainful.

384. If the bhikkhu could raise his mind to the third jhana for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that jhana it would be more gainful.

385. If the bhikkhu could raise his mind to the fourth jhana for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that jhana it would be more gainful.

386. If the bhikkhu could release his mind developing loving kindness for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

387. If the bhikkhu could release his mind developing compassion for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

388. If the bhikkhu could release his mind developing intrinsic joy for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

389. If the bhikkhu could release his mind developing equanimity for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

390. If the bhikkhu abides reflecting the body in the body mindful and aware to dispel greed and displeasure for the world, for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

391. If the bhikkhu abides reflecting feelings in feelings mindful and aware to dispel greed and displeasure for the world for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

392. If the bhikkhu abides reflecting mental qualities in the mind, mindful and aware to dispel greed and displeasure for the world for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

393. If the bhikkhu abides reflecting thoughts and thought processes mindful and aware to dispel greed and displeasure for the world for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

394. If interest and effort is aroused to check the non-arising of not arisen demerit for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

395. If interest and effort is aroused to dispel arisen demerit, for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

396. If interest and effort is aroused to promote the arising of non arisen merit for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the countries' alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

397. If interest and effort is aroused to promote the unconfused establishment and development of arisen merit, for the fraction of a second, it is said he abides in jhana, has done his duties by the Teacher, and eats the country's alms food without a debt. If he makes much of that, it would be more gainful.

http://www.awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara1/1-ekanipata/016-Ekadhammapali-e.html

Призывая монахов практиковать, Будда говорит:

Jhayatha, bhikkhave, ma pamadattha.

Медитируйте, монахи, не ленитесь.

https://suttacentral.net/en/sn43.1
http://obo.genaud.net/a/dhamma-vinaya/pali/an/09_nines/an09.019.pali.bd.htm


или как в Индрия-бхавана сутте:

Etāni, ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyathānanda, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuvattha.

Вот, Ананда, подножия деревьев, вот пустующие дома. Созерцайте, Ананда, не будьте беспечны, чтобы вы потом не пожалели об этом.

http://dhamma.ru/canon/mn152.htm
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.152.than.html

Другой вопрос - какие именно состояния относятся к верному сосредоточению (самма-самадхи), то есть к четырем степеням джханы.
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manikarnika

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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #5 : 02 Январь 2009 06:59 »

Цитировать
Другой вопрос - какие именно состояния относятся к верному сосредоточению (самма-самадхи), то есть к четырем степеням джханы.

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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #6 : 02 Январь 2009 11:19 »

Друзья, я понимаю, что каждый из вас может быть последователем того или иного учителя.
Но все же мы здесь для того, чтобы общаться, а не обмениваться цитатами.

Надеюсь, что фактор "витакка" у вас сохранился и в смысле "мысли, рассуждения".
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #7 : 03 Январь 2009 18:37 »

Развитие мудрости, випассаны, тоже может приводить к развитию факторов джханы.

Цитировать
371. Размышляй, о бхикшу, и не будь легкомыслен; не давай мысли вращаться в потоках чувственных удовольствий,    

371. Jhāya bhikkhu mā pamādo, mā te kāmaguṇe ramessu cittaṃ.

чтобы тебе, беспечному, не пришлось глотать железный шар и, горя в огне, кричать: «Вот страдание!»    

Mā lohaguḷaṃ gilī pamatto, mā kandi "dukkhamidan"ti ḍayhamāno.
   
372. Нет размышления у того, кто не знает; нет знания у того, кто не размышляет.    

372. Natthi jhānaṃ apaññassa, paññā natthi ajhāyato.

У кого же и размышление и знание, тот, действительно, близок к нирване.    

Yamhi jhānañca paññā ca, sa ve nibbānasantike.
   
373. Бхикшу с успокоенным умом, удалившийся в одиночество,    

373. Suññāgāraṃ paviṭṭhassa, santacittassa bhikkhuno.

испытывает сверхчеловеческое наслаждение: он отчетливо видит дхамму.    

Amānusī rati hoti, sammā dhammaṃ vipassato.
   
374. Всякий раз, когда он во всей полноте познает возникновение и разрушение элементов,    

374. Yato yato sammasati, khandhānaṃ udayabbayaṃ;

он, знающий это бессмертие, достигает радости и счастья.    

Labhatī pītipāmojjaṃ, amataṃ taṃ vijānataṃ.
   
375. Здесь вот начало для мудрого бхикшу;    

375. Tatrāyamādi bhavati, idha paññassa bhikkhuno;

наблюдение за чувствами, удовлетворение и воздержанность в согласии с Пратимокшей.    

Indriyagutti santuṭṭhi, pātimokkhe ca saṃvaro.
   
376. Следуй за благородным другом, ведущим чистую жизнь и усердным.    

376. Mitte bhajassu kalyāṇe, suddhājīve atandite;

Пусть он будет благосклонен в жизни и праведен в поведении.    

Paṭisanthāravutyassa, ācārakusalo siyā.

Тогда, исполненный радости, он положит конец страданию.    

Tato pāmojjabahulo, dukkhassantaṃ karissati.

http://dhamma.ru/lib/dhammapada.htm#n25

Комментарий: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/dmpada2l.htm#368376
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #8 : 06 Январь 2009 11:59 »

Комментарии на эту тему:

http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=116

Dear Rob E.

I was impressed with your post to Nina today. Glad you brought this sutta up, as there are several like it in the Tipitaka. I think it is one of those phrases that need a little explication. The Pali (supplied by Jim Anderson) of an almost identical phrase:

"Jhaayatha, Cunda, maa pamaadattha maa pacchaa vippa.tisaarino ahuvattha ..." -- M i 46 (near the end of MN 8 ). Also found at M i 118 (MN 19) with 'bhikkhave' instead of Cunda. Here, the commentary interprets "Meditate" as "Increase samatha and vipassanaa".

"Samatha~nca vipassana~nca va.d.dhethaa ti vutta.m hoti." --MA ii 195 (there's a bit more just before this)

Jim:

I know about this translation of 'jhaayatha'. I find that it does not quite agree with the commentary which includes both samatha and vipassanaa. That's why I think 'Meditate' is a better translation than 'Practice jhana'.

"Jhaayatha' is a verb in the 2nd person plural with the -tha ending. In the PED, the verbs are entered in their 3rd pers. sing. forms with the -ti ending. So you will have to look for 'jhaayati' for which you will find two
entries. The first one has the following senses: to meditate, contemplate, think upon, brood over (c. acc.): . . . -- and for the second: to burn, to be on fire: . . . They are derived from two distinct roots. In the commentarial passage from which I quoted "Increase samatha and vipassanaa" in explaining 'jhaayatha' there is also the following comment that helps to clarify the difference between samatha and vipassana: "Meditate (upanijjhaayatha) on the 38 objects (aaramma.na) with the meditation (upanijjhaana) on an object and on aggregates, bases, etc. according to anicca, etc. with the meditation on a characteristic (lakkha.na)." -- MA i 195." end of section by Jim Anderson.
-----------
When the texts talk about meditation, jhaya, it is useful to know that there are two types. The Dhammapada 371 :"Meditate, o bhikkhu and be not heedless." (same pali phrase as the sutta you quoted above. The atthakatha says "o bhikkhus meditate by the two kinds of meditative absorptions" And the tika notes that this is twofold in "the sense of meditative absorption that arises depending on an object and meditative absorption that arises dependent on characteristics" The tika later explains this by saying that the first is (p506 note 6 of carter and palihawadana) "the eight attainments (jhanas) to be obtained by training the mind in concentrating on one of the thirty eight objects such as kasina [or metta, or Buddha or Dhamma or breath etc] and the second means 'insight wisdom, path and fruit'..to be obtained by reflecting on the three characteristics'"endquote

Now when it says 'reflecting' this means direct insight into the actual characteristics and conditions of the present moment right up to the vipassana nanas and magga and phala. The Dhammapada pradipaya (see p457 of carter) says "to consider the coming into being of rupa on account of ignorance, craving, kammaand nutrition, and also to see the mere characteristics of its instantaneous coming into being, without looking for causative aspect; thus one should consider the rise of rupa in five ways. Likewise to consider the rise of
the other 4 khandas in the same way...Thus the rise of the pancakkhanda (five aggregates )is seen in 25 ways. To see that the rise of the khandas is stopped by abolishing the causes:ignorance, craving, kamma and nutrition..in this way the cessation of the agregates should be seen" end quote

best wishes

robert
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #9 : 29 Январь 2009 10:34 »

Лекция досточтимого Гунаратаны о том, что такое джхана:

Jhana Retreat Talk One
Bhante Gunaratana

The use of the breath as a meditation object to attain Jhana and attaining enlightenment as theory is explored. This method is described in many suttas: Satipatthana Sutta, Anapanasati Sutta, Girimananda Sutta and others. Bhante G. clears up various misconceptions about Jhanas.

http://www.bhavanasociety.org/resource/jhana_retreat_talk_one/
http://www.bhavanasociety.org/list/category/MP3s/
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #10 : 07 Июнь 2009 16:09 »

Статья Ленса Казинса об этом термине:

http://books.google.com/books?id=e5LXzQD-GyEC&printsec=frontcover&hl=uk#PPA34,M1
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #11 : 10 Сентябрь 2009 20:52 »

Несколько сутт о восьми джханах как о Ниббане, испытываемой уже в этой жизни:

6. Sandiṭṭhikanibbānasuttaṃ - Extinction here and now

005.06. ”Friend, it is said extinction is here and now, how far is extinction here and now as told by The Blessed One?”

“Here, friend, the bhikkhu secluding the mind from sensual desires ... re ... abides in the first higher state of the mind. Friend, mastering this much, it is said extinction is here and now by The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming thoughts and discursive thoughts ... re ... abides in the second higher state of the mind ... third higher state of the mind, ... fourth higher state of the mind Friend, mastering this much, it is said extinction is here and now, by Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all perceptions of matter and all perceptions of anger, not attending to various perceptions, with space is boundless abides in the sphere of space. Friend, mastering this much, it is said extinction is here and now, by The Blessed One ... re ...

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all the sphere of neither perceptions nor non-perceptions abides in the cessation of perceptions and feelings. Friend, without a mastery, for this much, it is said extinction is here and now, by The Blessed One.”

7. Nibbānasuttaṃ - Extinction

005.07. ”Friend, it is said, extinction, for what is it said, extinction by The Blessed One?”

“Here, friend, the bhikkhu secluding the mind from sensual desires ... re ... abides in the first higher state of the mind. Friend, mastering this, is extinction said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming thoughts and discursive thoughts ... re ... abides in the second higher state of the mind ... third higher state of the mind, ... fourth higher state of the mind Friend, mastering this, is extinction said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all perceptions of matter and all perceptions of anger, not attending to various perceptions, with space is boundless abides in the sphere of space. Friend, mastering this, is extinction said The Blessed One ... re ...

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all the sphere of neither perceptions nor non-perceptions abides in the cessation of perceptions and feelings. Friend, mastering this, is extinction said The Blessed One.”

8. Parinibbānasuttaṃ - Final extinction

005.08. ”Friend, it is said, `final extinction,' for what is it said, final extinction by The Blessed One?”

“Here, friend, the bhikkhu secluding the mind from sensual desires ... re ... abides in the first higher state of the mind. Friend, mastering this is final extinction said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming thoughts and discursive thoughts ... re ... abides in the second higher state of the mind ... third higher state of the mind, ... fourth higher state of the mind Friend, mastering this is final extinction said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all perceptions of matter and all perceptions of anger, not attending to various perceptions, with space is boundless abides in the sphere of space. Friend, mastering this is final extinction said The Blessed One ... re ...

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all the sphere of neither perceptions nor non-perceptions abides in the cessation of perceptions and feelings. Friend, mastering, this is final extinction said The Blessed One.”

9. Tadaṇganibbānasuttaṃ - By that factor extinction

005.09. ”Friend, it is said, extinction by that factor, why is it said, extinction by that factor by The Blessed One?”

“Here, friend, the bhikkhu secluding the mind from sensual desires ... re ... abides in the first higher state of the mind. Friend, mastering this is extinction by that factor, said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming thoughts and discursive thoughts ... re ... abides in the second higher state of the mind ... third higher state of the mind, ... fourth higher state of the mind Friend, mastering this is extinction by that factor, said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all perceptions of matter and all perceptions of anger, not attending to various perceptions, with space is boundless abides in the sphere of space. Friend, mastering this is extinction by that factor, said The Blessed One ... re ...

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all the sphere of neither perceptions nor non-perceptions abides in the cessation of perceptions and feelings. Friend, mastering, this is extinction by that factor, said The Blessed One.”

10. Diṭṭhadhammanibbānasuttaṃ - Extinction in this very life

005.10. ”Friend, it is said, `extinction in this very life” how far is it extinction in this very life as told by The Blessed One?”

“Here, friend, the bhikkhu secluding the mind from sensual desires ... re ... abides in the first higher state of the mind. Friend, mastering this is extinction in this very life, said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming thoughts and discursive thoughts ... re ... abides in the second higher state of the mind ... third higher state of the mind, ... fourth higher state of the mind Friend, mastering this is extinction in this very life, said The Blessed One.

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all perceptions of matter and all perceptions of anger, not attending to various perceptions, with space is boundless abides in the sphere of space. Friend, mastering this is extinction in this very life, said The Blessed One ... re ...

Again, friend, the bhikkhu overcoming all the sphere of neither perceptions nor non-perceptions abides in the cessation of perceptions and feelings. Friend, mastering, this is extinction in this very life, said The Blessed One.”


http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara6/09-navakanipata/005-samannavaggo-e.html


6. Sandiṭṭhikanibbānasuttaṃ

47. ‘‘‘Sandiṭṭhikaṃ nibbānaṃ sandiṭṭhikaṃ nibbāna’nti, āvuso, vuccati. Kittāvatā nu kho, āvuso, sandiṭṭhikaṃ nibbānaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā’’ti?

‘‘Idhāvuso, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi…pe… paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati. Ettāvatāpi kho, āvuso, sandiṭṭhikaṃ nibbānaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā pariyāyena…pe….

‘‘Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, bhikkhu sabbaso nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṃ samatikkamma saññāvedayitanirodhaṃ upasampajja viharati, paññāya cassa disvā āsavā parikkhīṇā honti. Ettāvatāpi kho, āvuso, sandiṭṭhikaṃ nibbānaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā nippariyāyenā’’ti. Chaṭṭhaṃ.

7. Nibbānasuttaṃ

48. ‘‘‘Nibbānaṃ nibbāna’nti, āvuso, vuccati…pe…. Sattamaṃ.

8. Parinibbānasuttaṃ

49. ‘‘‘Parinibbānaṃ parinibbāna’nti…pe…. Aṭṭhamaṃ.

9. Tadaṅganibbānasuttaṃ

50. ‘‘‘Tadaṅganibbānaṃ tadaṅganibbāna’nti, āvuso, vuccati…pe…. Navamaṃ.

10. Diṭṭhadhammanibbānasuttaṃ

51. ‘‘‘Diṭṭhadhammanibbānaṃ diṭṭhadhammanibbāna’nti, āvuso, vuccati. Kittāvatā nu kho, āvuso diṭṭhadhammanibbānaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā’’ti?

‘‘Idhāvuso, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi …pe… paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati. Ettāvatāpi kho, āvuso, diṭṭhadhammanibbānaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā pariyāyena …pe….

‘‘Puna caparaṃ, āvuso, bhikkhu sabbaso nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṃ samatikkamma saññāvedayitanirodhaṃ upasampajja viharati, paññāya cassa disvā āsavā parikkhīṇā honti. Ettāvatāpi kho, āvuso, diṭṭhadhammanibbānaṃ vuttaṃ bhagavatā nippariyāyenā’’ti.
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #12 : 07 Март 2011 19:33 »

С англоязычного форума, о качествах умелой джханы:

I'll stick with the canonical Dhammasaṅgaṇī and Paṭisambhidāmagga in order to further clarify this sutta. The Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Rūpāvacarakusala Catukkanaya lists the mental factors engaged in an optimally skillful rūpāvacarajjhānacitta on a specific occasion, specifically, at that time. This list includes sammādiṭṭhi, sammāsati, sampajañña, samatha, and vipassanā:

      What at that time is samatha? That which at that time is stability of mind, steadfastness of mind, thorough steadfastness of mind, unshakableness, non-distraction, imperturbability, calmness of mind, faculty of concentration, strength of concentration, right concentration. This at that time is samatha.

      What at that time is vipassanā? That which at that time is discernment (paññā), thorough understanding, investigation, comprehensive investigation, investigation of phenomena, consideration, discrimination, direct discrimination, erudite intelligence, proficiency, refined intelligence, discriminative examination.... This at that time is vipassanā.


The same is said regarding supramundane jhāna in the Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā section, with the appropriate additions. Also, the Paṭisambhidāmagga Yuganaddhakathā is the canonical commentary on this sutta, where the coupling of samatha and vipassanā are again said to occur together upon attainment of the noble path. This is the same as what is presented in the Dhammasaṅgaṇī Cittuppādakaṇḍa Lokuttarakusala Suddhikapaṭipadā.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7360&start=20#p120333
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #13 : 09 Март 2011 07:32 »

Описание джханы Натаном на англоязычном "Колесе Дхаммы":

When I develop first Jhana, I develop it based on contact between consciousness and the entire body through attending to the breath until the mind is calm and unified and then by directing attention to the body form as a whole. So first Jhana is very pleasant for me because it is simply attending to the single perception of contact noted by consciousness in touch with the whole body form and the corresponding absence of all attention to any diversity of thought objects or sense objects. The point being that there is not much left to think about and that thinking about any of the remaining simplicity of attention discursively ends that single pointed quality of simple attention to contact with the body form.

Similarly with the attention in second jhana, the attending is comparatively effortless to establishing the simple attention of the first jhana and so even simpler. With the third jhana attention shifts ever so slightly from the pleasantness that arises on the basis of the one simple type of attention on the pleasant quality of attention to the body form to the pleasant quality that arises in the mind on the basis of the singular attention to conscious contact with the body and the pleasantness of the body contact fades. In shifting slightly to the fourth jhana both of these two previously noted pleasant qualities, the bodily and the mental qualities, fade out as attention shifts to the singleness of attention that is steady and peaceful.

These are very simple and very subtle shifts of attention and not complicated, difficult or unnatural to progress through within the jhanas from one to the next without emerging from jhana completely in passing from one jhana to the next. The insights into the conditions that are present and the conditions that are not present or into what is occurring and what is not occurring during jhana are very simple and obvious and so there is no need for discursive thought or any sort of complicated analysis or reflection.

This becomes even simpler in progressing further to the formless realms as only mental qualities remain when the body form is let go of and drops from attention as well. In the realm of neither perception nor non perception it is not possible to discern qualities at all as there is only one quality, that of consciousness without any contacts, not even with the simplest type of contact or the perception of nothing to serve as a quality for reflection. Because of this extreme simplicity one can only note or discern the difference between discernment of the formless perception of nothing and of neither perception nor non-perception when one again returns to the previous perception of nothing or one of the other jhanas. Similarly with the cessation of perception and feeling altogether, whereupon the last faint trace of consciousness is abandoned, one can not discern in that state as there are no qualities supportive of discernment remaining. Within the nirodha samapatti it is not possible to discern any qualities at all because the quality of consciousness has ceased entirely in a similar matter to how all of the other form and mental qualities in contact with consciousness have also previously ceased through a discerning and concentrated direction of attention successively away from these various qualities towards those which are more subtle and underlying to those which previously have been directly and correctly known and directly and correctly discerned.

What is clear and obvious during jhana and which requires no discursive thought throughout attending within all of the four jhanas and the four formless attainments is that these dependently compounded forms of attention are all composed of much simpler, steadier and more refined kinds of mental qualities and forms of attention than are any more ordinary perceptions of sensations or thought objects or other mental qualities and that owing to these forms of attention still being fabricated (with the exception of nirodha samapatti wherein fabrication ends together with all aspects or qualities composing fabrication) that these also carry all three marks of dependently conditional phenomena.

So there is no need for discursive thought or thought objects or anything of the sort to clearly cognize and comprehend what is and is not occurring in a given jhana or in the transition from one jhana to the next or from one formless realm to the next. One is discerning, one has insights but these insights need not be complex or disruptive of the calm and concentration of the jhanas as these insights are largely obvious and self evident. What is made clear by the emergence from nirodha samapatti is that not only has consciousness ceased altogether at that point but that this cessation is markedly more pleasant and peaceful than any of the previous jhanas and realms. After emerging from nirodha samapatti it is unquestionably clear, in a manner made similarly, directly and immediately clear in no other way, that there is no lasting core or essence or soul or spirit or atman or brahma or anything else which is central or consistent to the arising and passing of consciousness and the contact between consciousness and other dependent and compounded mental qualities and bodily forms and the rest.

Before the nirodha samapatti one might still hope or imagine or believe in notions like the atman or the soul or buddhanature or brahman or some eternal thing or condition but after emerging from nirodha samapatti it is entirely impossible to maintain such misconceptions because one can reflect on having directly observed the complete ending of consciousness through a progressive process of simplifications which is largely what the four jhanas and the four formless realms are. These eight simplifications of attention progressively culminate in the abandonment of all conditions and complete release. Having known the indescribable nature of that release one need no longer speculate on how one arrives at it or what it is like or if it is actually preferable to ongoing being and becoming.

A great deal of vipassana and discernment of the characteristics of conditions in all modes and at all times in more ordinary and complex states of mind necessarily precedes the refined conditions present during the modes of attention which are characteristic of jhana. Jhana is also capable of maintaining discernment, very simply and straightforwardly, but it is no less very clearly the quality of discernment which is functioning during the acknowledgment of what is occurring and in the subtle shifting of attention while passing through the four jhana and the four formless realms leading to nirodha samapatti and discernment into the absolutely undeniable truth of anatta which occurs on emergence from the NS.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7360&start=100#p121154
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yuri2006

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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #14 : 12 Март 2011 17:48 »

Уважаемый Ассаджи

On the basis of these previous discernments and insights one then is capable of noting that conscious contact potentially pervades the entire body. One may then examine what occurs if, instead of directing attention to the flux of sense perceptions, diverse and momentary sensations within the body, diverse and momentary thought objects and shifting mental qualities, one examined the point of contact between consciousness and the entire body as a whole, as a single perception of the body fully pervaded with conscious awareness.

Я правильно понял, что речь идет о деконцентрации внимания до пределов тела (т.е. все тело в поле внимания)? В отличие от сосредоточения внимания на конкретном объекте, как ощущения в ноздрях.
« Последнее редактирование: 13 Март 2011 18:01 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #15 : 12 Март 2011 18:28 »

Уважаемый Юрий!

Я правильно понял, что речь идет о деконцентрации внимания до пределов тела (т.е. все тело в поле внимания)? В отличие от сосредоточения внимания на конкретном объекте, как ощущения в ноздрях.

Самадхи по определению однонастроено не на некий произвольный объект, а на особо подобранные опоры (араммана), способные окрашивать все восприятие.

Например, в случае анапанасати элемент воздуха как опора окрашивает тактильное восприятие тела, и тело ощущается "воздушным".

По этому поводу есть тема:
http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=974.0

Отслеживание ощущений, возникающих и исчезающих при контакте с воздухом - это уже вариант развития випассаны (способности рассмотрения).
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #16 : 13 Март 2011 14:11 »

Уважаемый Ассаджи, спасибо!

Не касаясь более высоких ступеней, и говоря лишь о первой джкхане, я все-таки понимаю слова Натана как переход от концентрации к деконцентрации сознания до пределов тела

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When I develop first Jhana, I develop it based on contact between consciousness and the entire body through attending to the breath until the mind is calm and unified and then by directing attention to the body form as a whole.
.

Т.е. сначала он развивал сосредоточение и успокаивал ум, концентрируясь на дыхании, а далее перевел внимание на всю область тела.

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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #17 : 13 Март 2011 17:56 »

Уважаемый Юрий!

Можете у него спросить. По-моему, он ясно написал "the entire body".

Хотя как бы он ни написал, и какими бы ни были его методы, суть самадхи и определение однонастроенности (экаггата) от этого не меняются.

http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=862.0
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #18 : 29 Март 2011 08:09 »

Более раннее письмо Натана:

http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=516.0
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Re: Джхана
« Ответ #19 : 21 Июль 2011 11:44 »

Еще одно лаконичное описание Натана:

To develop jhana it is important to begin with overcoming the five hindrances and it is often a good practice to do this in conjunction with developing insight practice. By attending to the breath or to the whole body and by bringing the mind gently back to the object or theme of the meditation one can observe the arising and passing of the five hindrances and the growth or decline of the establishment of steady concentration. When through practice one has developed the skill necessary to overcome the hindrances and to steady the mind on the object or theme of meditation one is ready to be attentive to the arising of the jhana factors and when these are present to begin to reflect on the qualities of the jhana factors and by letting go of the less equanimous factors to develop concentration further up to the fourth jhana. Through the insights gained by means of letting go of the hindrances and letting go of the less equanimous jhana factors, one will have developed the skills neccesary for letting go of attending to form and this will lead to the development of the formless concentrations.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9115#p141159
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