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Перевод "tathāgata"
« : 02 Март 2009 12:23 »

Из Аттхакатхи:

‘‘Tattha katame satta bojjhaṅgā? Idha bhikkhu yasmiṃ samaye lokuttaraṃ jhānaṃ bhāveti…pe… tasmiṃ samaye satta bojjhaṅgā honti satisambojjhaṅgo…pe… upekkhāsambojjhaṅgo. Tattha katamo satisambojjhaṅgo? Yā sati…pe… anussatī’’tiādinā (vibha. 478-479) channavutiyā nayasahassavibhāgehīti evaṃ nānākārato pavattāni bhagavato sambojjhaṅgavibhāvanañāṇāni tassa tassa atthassa avisaṃvādanato tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni. Evampi bhagavā tathāni āgatoti tathāgato.

Udana-Atthakatha 146

‘‘Tattha katamo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo? Idha, bhikkhu, yasmiṃ samaye lokuttaraṃ jhānaṃ bhāveti…pe… dukkhapaṭipadaṃ dandhābhiññaṃ, tasmiṃ samaye aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo hoti – sammādiṭṭhi sammāsaṅkappo’’tiādinā (vibha. 499) caturāsītiyā nayasahassavibhāgehīti evaṃ anekākārato pavattāni bhagavato ariyamaggavibhāvanañāṇāni atthassa avisaṃvādanato sabbānipi tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni evampi bhagavā tathāni āgatoti tathāgato.

Itivuttaka-Atthakatha 1.131

Перечень трактовок:

Tasmā tathāgatanti ettha aṭṭhahi kāraṇehi bhagavā tathāgatoti vuccati. Katamehi aṭṭhahi? Tathā āgatoti tathāgato, tathā gatoti tathāgato, tathalakkhaṇaṃ āgatoti tathāgato, tathadhamme yāthāvato abhisambuddhoti tathāgato, tathadassitāya tathāgato, tathavāditāya tathāgato, tathākāritāya tathāgato, abhibhavanaṭṭhena tathāgatoti.

Kathaṃ bhagavā tathā āgatoti tathāgato? Yathā yena abhinīhārena dānapāramiṃ pūretvā sīlanekkhammapaññāvīriyakhantisaccaadhiṭṭhānamettāupekkhāpāramiṃ pūretvā imā dasa pāramiyo, dasa upapāramiyo, dasa paramatthapāramiyoti samatiṃsa pāramiyo pūretvā aṅgapariccāgaṃ, attapariccāgaṃ, dhanapariccāgaṃ, dārapariccāgaṃ, rajjapariccāganti imāni pañca mahāpariccāgāni pariccajitvā yathā vipassiādayo sammāsambuddhā āgatā, tathā amhākaṃ bhagavāpi āgatoti tathāgato. Yathāha –

‘‘Yatheva lokamhi vipassiādayo,

Sabbaññubhāvaṃ munayo idhāgatā;

Tathā ayaṃ sakyamunīpi āgato,

Tathāgato vuccati tena cakkhumā’’ti. –

Evaṃ tathā āgatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathā gatoti tathāgato? Yathā sampatijātāva vipassiādayo samehi pādehi pathaviyaṃ patiṭṭhāya uttarābhimukhā sattapadavītihārena gatā, tathā amhākaṃ bhagavāpi gatoti tathāgato. Yathāhu –

‘‘Muhuttajātova gavaṃpatī yathā,

Samehi pādehi phusī vasundharaṃ;

So vikkamī satta padāni gotamo,

Setañca chattaṃ anudhārayuṃ marū.

‘‘Gantvāna so satta padāni gotamo,

Disā vilokesi samā samantato;

Aṭṭhaṅgupetaṃ giramabbhudīrayi,

Sīho yathā pabbatamuddhaniṭṭhito’’ti. –

Evaṃ tathā gatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathalakkhaṇaṃ āgatoti tathāgato? Sabbesaṃ rūpārūpadhammānaṃ salakkhaṇaṃ, sāmaññalakkhaṇaṃ, tathaṃ, avitathaṃ, ñāṇagatiyā āgato, avirajjhitvā patto, anubuddhoti tathāgato. Yathāha –

‘‘Sabbesaṃ pana dhammānaṃ, sakasāmaññalakkhaṇaṃ;

Tathamevāgato yasmā, tasmā nātho tathāgato’’ti. –

Evaṃ tathalakkhaṇaṃ āgatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathadhamme yāthāvato abhisambuddhoti tathāgato? Tathadhammā nāma cattāri ariyasaccāni. Yathāha ‘‘cattārimāni, bhikkhave, tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni. Katamāni cattāri? Idaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyasaccanti, bhikkhave, tathametaṃ avitathametaṃ anaññathameta’’nti (saṃ. ni. 5.1090) vitthāro. Tāni ca bhagavā abhisambuddho, tasmāpi tathānaṃ abhisambuddhattā tathāgato. Abhisambuddhattho hi ettha gata-saddo. Evaṃ tathadhamme yāthāvato abhisambuddhoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathadassitāya tathāgato? Yaṃ sadevake loke…pe… sadevamanussāya pajāya aparimāṇāsu lokadhātūsu aparimāṇānaṃ sattānaṃ cakkhudvāre āpāthamāgacchantaṃ rūpārammaṇaṃ nāma atthi, taṃ bhagavā sabbākārato jānāti passati. Evaṃ jānatā passatā cānena taṃ iṭṭhādivasena vā diṭṭhasutamutaviññātesu labbhamānapadavasena vā ‘‘katamaṃ taṃ rūpaṃ rūpāyatanaṃ, yaṃ rūpaṃ catunnaṃ mahābhūtānaṃ upādāya vaṇṇanibhā sanidassanaṃ sappaṭighaṃ nīlaṃ pītaka’’ntiādinā (dha. sa. 616) nayena anekehi nāmehi terasahi vārehi dvepaññāsāya nayehi vibhajjamānaṃ tathameva hoti, vitathaṃ natthi. Esa nayo sotadvārādīsu āpāthamāgacchantesu saddādīsu. Vuttañhetaṃ bhagavatā –

‘‘Yaṃ, bhikkhave, sadevakassa lokassa…pe… sadevamanussāya diṭṭhaṃ sutaṃ mutaṃ viññātaṃ pattaṃ pariyesitaṃ anuvicaritaṃ manasā, tamahaṃ jānāmi…pe… tamahaṃ abbhaññāsiṃ, taṃ tathāgatassa viditaṃ, taṃ tathāgato na upaṭṭhāsī’’ti (a. ni. 4.24).

Evaṃ tathadassitāya tathāgato. Ettha tathadassiatthe tathāgatoti padassa sambhavo veditabbo.

Kathaṃ tathavāditāya tathāgato? Yaṃ rattiṃ bhagavā anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambuddho, yañca rattiṃ anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā parinibbāyi, etthantare pañcacattālīsavassaparimāṇakāle yaṃ bhagavatā bhāsitaṃ suttageyyādi, sabbaṃ taṃ parisuddhaṃ paripuṇṇaṃ rāgamadādinimmadanaṃ ekasadisaṃ tathaṃ avitathaṃ. Tenāha –

‘‘Yañca, cunda, rattiṃ tathāgato anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambujjhati, yañca rattiṃ anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā parinibbāyati, yaṃ etasmiṃ antare bhāsati lapati niddisati, sabbaṃ taṃ tatheva hoti, no aññathā. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccatī’’ti (dī. ni. 3.188; a. ni. 4.23).

Gadaattho hi ettha gatasaddo. Evaṃ tathavāditāya tathāgato. Apica āgadanaṃ āgado, vacananti attho. Tatho aviparīto āgado assāti dakārassa takāraṃ katvā tathāgatoti, evampettha padasiddhi veditabbā.

Kathaṃ tathākāritāya tathāgato? Bhagavato hi vācāya kāyo anulometi, kāyassapi vācā. Tasmā yathāvādī tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī ca hoti. Evaṃbhūtassa cassa yathā vācā, kāyopi tathā gato pavatto. Yathā ca kāyo, vācāpi tathā gatāti tathāgato. Tenāha ‘‘yathāvādī, bhikkhave, tathāgato tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī. Iti yathāvādī tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccatī’’ti. Evaṃ tathākāritāya tathāgato.

Kathaṃ abhibhavanaṭṭhena tathāgato? Yasmā bhagavā upari bhavaggaṃ heṭṭhā avīciṃ pariyantaṃ karitvā tiriyaṃ aparimāṇāsu lokadhātūsu sabbasatte abhibhavati sīlenapi samādhināpi paññāyapi vimuttiyāpi vimuttiñāṇadassanenapi, na tassa tulā vā pamāṇaṃ vā atthi, atha kho atulo appameyyo anuttaro devānaṃ atidevo sakkānaṃ atisakko brahmānaṃ atibrahmā sabbasattuttamo, tasmā tathāgato. Tenāha –

‘‘Sadevake, bhikkhave, loke…pe… manussāya tathāgato abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthu daso vasavattī, tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccatī’’ti (dī. ni. 3.188; a. ni. 4.23).

Tatrāyaṃ padasiddhi – agado viya agado, desanāvilāso ceva puññussayo ca. Tena hesa mahānubhāvo bhisakko viya dibbāgadena sappe, sabbaparappavādino sadevakañca lokaṃ abhibhavati. Iti sabbalokābhibhavane tatho aviparīto yathāvutto agado etassāti dakārassa takāraṃ katvā tathāgatoti veditabbo. Evaṃ abhibhavanaṭṭhena tathāgato.

Apica tathāya gatoti tathāgato, tathaṃ gatoti tathāgato. Tattha sakalalokaṃ tīraṇapariññāya tathāya gato avagatoti tathāgato, lokasamudayaṃ pahānapariññāya tathāya gato atītoti tathāgato, lokanirodhaṃ sacchikiriyāya tathāya gato adhigatoti tathāgato. Lokanirodhagāminiṃ paṭipadaṃ tathaṃ gato paṭipannoti tathāgato. Vuttañhetaṃ bhagavatā –

‘‘Loko, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho. Lokasmā tathāgato visaṃyutto. Lokasamudayo, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho, lokasamudayo tathāgatassa pahīno. Lokanirodho, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho, lokanirodho tathāgatassa sacchikato. Lokanirodhagāminī paṭipadā, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddhā, lokanirodhagāminī paṭipadā tathāgatassa bhāvitā. Yaṃ, bhikkhave, sadevakassa…pe… sabbaṃ taṃ tathāgatena abhisambuddhaṃ. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccatī’’ti (a. ni. 4.23).

Aparehipi aṭṭhahi kāraṇehi bhagavā tathāgato. Tathāya āgatoti tathāgato, tathāya gatoti tathāgato, tathāni āgatoti tathāgato, tathā gatoti tathāgato, tathāvidhoti tathāgato, tathāpavattikoti tathāgato, tathehi āgatoti tathāgato, tathā gatabhāvena tathāgatoti.

Kathaṃ tathāya āgatoti tathāgato? Yā sā bhagavatā sumedhabhūtena dīpaṅkaradasabalassa pādamūle –

‘‘Manussattaṃ liṅgasampatti, hetu satthāradassanaṃ;

Pabbajjā guṇasampatti, adhikāro ca chandatā;

Aṭṭhadhammasamodhānā, abhinīhāro samijjhatī’’ti. (bu. vaṃ. 2.59) –

Evaṃ vuttaṃ aṭṭhaṅgasamannāgataṃ abhinīhāraṃ sampādentena ‘‘ahaṃ sadevakaṃ lokaṃ tiṇṇo tāressāmi, mutto mocessāmi, danto damessāmi, assattho assāsessāmi, parinibbuto parinibbāpessāmi, suddho sodhessāmi, buddho bodhessāmī’’ti mahāpaṭiññā pavattitā. Vuttaṃ hetaṃ –

‘‘Kiṃ me ekena tiṇṇena, purisena thāmadassinā;

Sabbaññutaṃ pāpuṇitvā, santāressaṃ sadevakaṃ.

‘‘Iminā me adhikārena, katena purisuttame;

Sabbaññutaṃ pāpuṇitvā, tāremi janataṃ bahuṃ.

‘‘Saṃsārasotaṃ chinditvā, viddhaṃsetvā tayo bhave;

Dhammanāvaṃ samāruyha, santāressaṃ sadevakaṃ.

‘‘Kiṃ me aññātavesena, dhammaṃ sacchikatenidha;

Sabbaññutaṃ pāpuṇitvā, buddho hessaṃ sadevake’’ti. (bu. vaṃ. 55-58);

Taṃ panetaṃ mahāpaṭiññaṃ sakalassapi buddhakaradhammasamudāyassa pavicayapaccavekkhaṇasamādānānaṃ kāraṇabhūtaṃ avisaṃvādento lokanātho yasmā mahākappānaṃ satasahassādhikāni cattāri asaṅkhyeyyāni sakkaccaṃ nirantaraṃ niravasesato dānapāramiādayo samatiṃsapāramiyo pūretvā, aṅgapariccāgādayo pañca mahāpariccāge pariccajitvā, saccādhiṭṭhānādīni cattāri adhiṭṭhānāni paribrūhetvā, puññañāṇasambhāre sambharitvā pubbayogapubbacariyadhammakkhānañātatthacariyādayo ukkaṃsāpetvā, buddhicariyaṃ paramakoṭiṃ pāpetvā anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambujjhi; tasmā tasseva sā mahāpaṭiññā tathā avitathā anaññathā, na tassa vālaggamattampi vitathaṃ atthi. Tathā hi dīpaṅkaro dasabalo koṇḍañño, maṅgalo…pe… kassapo bhagavāti ime catuvīsati sammāsambuddhā paṭipāṭiyā uppannā ‘‘buddho bhavissatī’’ti naṃ byākariṃsu. Evaṃ catuvīsatiyā buddhānaṃ santike laddhabyākaraṇo ye te katābhinīhārehi bodhisattehi laddhabbā ānisaṃsā, te labhitvāva āgatoti tāya yathāvuttāya mahāpaṭiññāya tathāya abhisambuddhabhāvaṃ āgato adhigatoti tathāgato. Evaṃ tathāya āgatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathāya gatoti tathāgato? Yāyaṃ mahākaruṇā lokanāthassa, yāya mahādukkhasambādhappaṭipannaṃ sattanikāyaṃ disvā ‘‘tassa natthañño koci paṭisaraṇaṃ, ahameva naṃ ito saṃsāradukkhato mutto mocessāmī’’ti samussāhitamānaso mahābhinīhāraṃ akāsi. Katvā ca yathāpaṇidhānaṃ sakalalokahitasampādanāya ussukkamāpanno attano kāyajīvitanirapekkho paresaṃ sotapathagamanamattenapi cittutrāsasamuppādikā atidukkarā dukkaracariyā samācaranto yathā mahābodhisattānaṃ paṭipatti hānabhāgiyā saṃkilesabhāgiyā ṭhitibhāgiyā vā na hoti, atha kho uttari visesabhāgiyāva hoti, tathā paṭipajjamāno anupubbena niravasese bodhisambhāre samānetvā abhisambodhiṃ pāpuṇi. Tato parañca tāyeva mahākaruṇāya sañcoditamānaso pavivekaratiṃ paramañca santaṃ vimokkhasukhaṃ pahāya bālajanabahule loke tehi samuppāditaṃ sammānāvamānavippakāraṃ agaṇetvā veneyyajanavinayanena niravasesaṃ buddhakiccaṃ niṭṭhapesi. Tatra yo bhagavato sattesu mahākaruṇāya samokkamanākāro, so parato āvi bhavissati. Yathā buddhabhūtassa lokanāthassa sattesu mahākaruṇā, evaṃ bodhisattabhūtassapi mahābhinīhārakālādīsūti sabbattha sabbadā ca ekasadisatāya tathāva sā avitathā anaññathā. Tasmā tīsupi avatthāsu sabbasattesu samānarasāya tathāya mahākaruṇāya sakalalokahitāya gato paṭipannoti tathāgato. Evaṃ tathāya gatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathāni āgatoti tathāgato? Tathāni nāma cattāri ariyamaggañāṇāni. Tāni hi ‘‘idaṃ dukkhaṃ, ayaṃ dukkhasamudayo, ayaṃ dukkhanirodho, ayaṃ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’’ti evaṃ sabbañeyyasaṅgāhakānaṃ pavattinivattitadubhayahetubhūtānaṃ catunnaṃ ariyasaccānaṃ, dukkhassa pīḷanaṭṭho saṅkhataṭṭho santāpaṭṭho vipariṇāmaṭṭho, samudayassa āyūhanaṭṭho nidānaṭṭho saṃyogaṭṭho palibodhaṭṭho, nirodhassa nissaraṇaṭṭho vivekaṭṭho asaṅkhataṭṭho amataṭṭho, maggassa niyyānaṭṭho hetvaṭṭho dassanaṭṭho adhipateyyaṭṭhotiādīnaṃ tabbibhāgānañca yathābhūtasabhāvāvabodhavibandhakassa saṃkilesapakkhassa samucchindanena paṭiladdhāya tattha asammohābhisamayasaṅkhātāya aviparītākārappavattiyā dhammānaṃ sabhāvasarasalakkhaṇassa avisaṃvādanato tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni, tāni bhagavā anaññaneyyo sayameva āgato adhigato, tasmā tathāni āgatoti tathāgato.

Yathā ca maggañāṇāni, evaṃ bhagavato tīsu kālesu appaṭihatañāṇāni catupaṭisambhidāñāṇāni catuvesārajjañāṇāni pañcagatiparicchedañāṇāni chaasādhāraṇañāṇāni sattabojjhaṅgavibhāvanañāṇāni aṭṭhamaggaṅgavibhāvanañāṇāni navānupubbavihārasamāpattiñāṇāni dasabalañāṇāni ca vibhāvetabbāni.

Tatrāyaṃ vibhāvanā – yañhi kiñci aparimāṇāsu lokadhātūsu aparimāṇānaṃ sattānaṃ hīnādibhedabhinnānaṃ hīnādibhedabhinnāsu atītāsu khandhāyatanadhātūsu sabhāvakiccādi avatthāvisesādi khandhapaṭibaddhanāmagottādi ca jānitabbaṃ. Anindriyabaddhesu ca atisukhumatirohitavidūradesesu rūpadhammesu yo taṃtaṃpaccayavisesehi saddhiṃ paccayuppannānaṃ vaṇṇasaṇṭhānagandharasaphassādiviseso, tattha sabbattheva hatthatale ṭhapitaāmalako viya paccakkhato asaṅgamappaṭihataṃ bhagavato ñāṇaṃ pavattati, tathā anāgatāsu paccuppannāsu cāti imāni tīsu kālesu appaṭihatañāṇāni nāma. Yathāha –

‘‘Atītaṃse buddhassa bhagavato appaṭihataṃ ñāṇaṃ, anāgataṃse buddhassa bhagavato appaṭihataṃ ñāṇaṃ, paccuppannaṃse buddhassa bhagavato appaṭihataṃ ñāṇa’’nti (paṭi. ma. 3.5).

Tāni panetāni tattha tattha dhammānaṃ sabhāvasarasalakkhaṇassa avisaṃvādanato tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni, tāni bhagavā sayambhuñāṇena adhigañchi. Evaṃ tathāni āgatoti tathāgato.

Itivuttaka-Atthakatha 1.117

« Последнее редактирование: 02 Март 2009 12:26 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #1 : 02 Март 2009 12:32 »

Таким образом, хотя в одном комментарии и перечисляются разнообразные трактовки, в двух комментариях приводится однозначное объяснение --

tathāni āgatoti tathāgato

Татхагата -- тот, кто достиг (āgato) [четырех] истин (tathāni).
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Bahupada

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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #2 : 02 Март 2009 14:09 »

Интересно. Правда далеко не все ясно...

Тем не менее, вот еще выдержки из Итивуттаки по поводу Татхагаты (менее этимологические, так сказать):

"Whatever in this world — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect, that has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. Thus he is called the Tathagata."

"From the night the Tathagata fully awakens to the unsurpassed Right Self-awakening to the night he is totally unbound in the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining, whatever the Tathagata has said, spoken, explained is just so (tatha) and not otherwise. Thus he is called the Tathagata"

"The Tathagata is one who does in line with (tatha) what he teaches, one who teaches in line with what he does. Thus he is called the Tathagata."

"In this world with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men, the Tathagata is the unconquered conqueror, all-seeing, the wielder of power. Thus he is called the Tathagata."
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #3 : 02 Март 2009 14:51 »

Я тоже нашел этот отрывок, и еще один в Дигха Никае. Их ключевой посыл - "тот, кто постиг (истину о происходящем, сачча)".

23. ‘‘Loko, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho. Lokasmā tathāgato visaṃyutto. Lokasamudayo, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho. Lokasamudayo tathāgatassa pahīno. Lokanirodho, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho. Lokanirodho tathāgatassa sacchikato. Lokanirodhagāminī paṭipadā, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddhā. Lokanirodhagāminī paṭipadā tathāgatassa bhāvitā.

‘‘Yaṃ, bhikkhave, sadevakassa lokassa samārakassa sabrahmakassa sassamaṇabrāhmaṇiyā pajāya sadevamanussāya diṭṭhaṃ sutaṃ mutaṃ viññātaṃ pattaṃ pariyesitaṃ anuvicaritaṃ manasā, sabbaṃ taṃ tathāgatena abhisambuddhaṃ. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati.

‘‘Yañca, bhikkhave, rattiṃ tathāgato anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambujjhati yañca rattiṃ anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā parinibbāyati, yaṃ etasmiṃ antare bhāsati lapati niddisati sabbaṃ taṃ tatheva hoti, no aññathā. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati.

‘‘Yathāvādī, bhikkhave, tathāgato tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī. Iti yathāvādī tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati.

‘‘Sadevake, bhikkhave, loke samārake sabrahmake sassamaṇabrāhmaṇiyā pajāya sadevamanussāya tathāgato abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthu daso vasavattī. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati’’.

"The world1 has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. From the world, the Tathagata is disjoined. The origination of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The origination of the world has, by the Tathagata, been abandoned. The cessation of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The cessation of the world has, by the Tathagata, been realized. The path leading to the cessation of the world has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. The path leading to the cessation of the world has, by the Tathagata, been developed.

"Whatever in this world — with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men — is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, attained, sought after, pondered by the intellect, that has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata. Thus he is called the Tathagata.

"From the night the Tathagata fully awakens to the unsurpassed Right Self-awakening to the night he is totally unbound in the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining, whatever the Tathagata has said, spoken, explained is just so (tatha) and not otherwise. Thus he is called the Tathagata.

"The Tathagata is one who does in line with (tatha) what he teaches, one who teaches in line with what he does. Thus he is called the Tathagata.

"In this world with its devas, Maras, & Brahmas, its generations complete with contemplatives & priests, princes & men, the Tathagata is the unconquered conqueror, all-seeing, the wielder of power.2 Thus he is called the Tathagata."

Loka Sutta AN 2.23
Itivuttaka 112
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/iti/iti.4.100-112.than.html#iti-112

188. ‘‘Iti kho, cunda, atītānāgatapaccuppannesu dhammesu tathāgato kālavādī [kālavādī saccavādī (syā.)] bhūtavādī atthavādī dhammavādī vinayavādī, tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati. Yañca kho, cunda, sadevakassa lokassa samārakassa sabrahmakassa sassamaṇabrāhmaṇiyā pajāya sadevamanussāya diṭṭhaṃ sutaṃ mutaṃ viññātaṃ pattaṃ pariyesitaṃ anuvicaritaṃ manasā, sabbaṃ tathāgatena abhisambuddhaṃ, tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati. Yañca, cunda, rattiṃ tathāgato anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambujjhati, yañca rattiṃ anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā parinibbāyati, yaṃ etasmiṃ antare bhāsati lapati niddisati. Sabbaṃ taṃ tatheva hoti no aññathā, tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati. Yathāvādī, cunda, tathāgato tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī. Iti yathāvādī tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī, tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati. Sadevake loke, cunda, samārake sabrahmake sassamaṇabrāhmaṇiyā pajāya sadevamanussāya tathāgato abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthudaso vasavattī, tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccati.

And so, O Cunda, concerning things past, future and present the Tathāgata is a prophet of the hour, a prophet of fact, a prophet of good, a prophet of the Norm, a prophet of the Discipline.

For this is he called Tathāgata.

Whatever, O Cunda, in this world with its devas and Māras and Brahmās, is by the folk thereof, gods or men, recluses or brahmins, seen, heard, felt, discerned, accomplished, striven for, or devised in mind,—all is understood by the Tathāgata.

For this is he called Tathāgata.

And all that in the interval between the night, O Cunda, wherein the Tathāgata was enlightened in the supreme enlightenment, and the night wherein he passed away without any condition of rebirth remaining,—all that, in that interval, he speaks in discourse or conversation or exposition:—all that is so, and not otherwise.

For that is he called Tathāgata.

As the Tathāgata says, O Cunda so he does; as he does, so he says.

Inasmuch as he goeth even according to his word, and his word is according to his going, for that is he called Tathāgata.

As to the world, O Cunda, with its Māras and its Brahmās, of all its folk, divine or human, recluses or brahmins, the Tathāgata hath surpassed them, hath not by them been surpassed, surveys them with sure vision, disposer of things.

For that is he called Tathāgata.

Pasadika sutta DN 3.134
https://suttacentral.net/en/dn29

Еще один комментарий о восьми значениях:

Tathāgatassāti aṭṭhahi kāraṇehi bhagavā tathāgato. Tathā āgatoti tathāgato, tathā gatoti tathāgato, tathalakkhaṇaṃ āgatoti tathāgato, tathadhamme yāthāvato abhisambuddhoti tathāgato, tathadassitāya tathāgato, tathavāditāya tathāgato, tathākāritāya tathāgato, abhibhavanaṭṭhena tathāgatoti.

Kathaṃ bhagavā tathā āgatoti tathāgato? Yathā sabbalokahitāya ussukkamāpannā purimakā sammāsambuddhā āgatā, yathā vipassī bhagavā āgato, yathā sikhī bhagavā, yathā vessabhū bhagavā, yathā kakusandho bhagavā, yathā koṇāgamano bhagavā, yathā kassapo bhagavā āgato. Kiṃ vuttaṃ hoti? Yena abhinīhārena ete bhagavanto āgatā, teneva amhākampi bhagavā āgato. Atha vā yathā vipassī bhagavā…pe… yathā kassapo bhagavā dānapāramiṃ pūretvā, sīlanekkhammapaññāvīriyakhantisaccaadhiṭṭhānamettāupekkhāpāramiṃ pūretvā, imā dasa pāramiyo, dasa upapāramiyo, dasa paramatthapāramiyoti samatiṃsapāramiyo pūretvā aṅgapariccāgaṃ, nayanadhanarajjaputtadārapariccāganti ime pañca mahāpariccāge pariccajitvā pubbayogapubbacariyadhammakkhānañātatthacariyādayo pūretvā buddhicariyāya koṭiṃ patvā āgato; tathā amhākampi bhagavā āgato. Atha vā yathā vipassī bhagavā…pe… kassapo bhagavā cattāro satipaṭṭhāne, cattāro sammappadhāne, cattāro iddhipāde, pañcindriyāni, pañca balāni, satta bojjhaṅge, ariyaṃ aṭṭhaṅgikaṃ maggaṃ bhāvetvā brūhetvā āgato, tathā amhākampi bhagavā āgato. Evaṃ tathā āgatoti tathāgato.

‘‘Yatheva lokamhi vipassiādayo,

Sabbaññubhāvaṃ munayo idhāgatā;

Tathā ayaṃ sakyamunīpi āgato,

Tathāgato vuccati tena cakkhumā’’ti.

Evaṃ tathā āgatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathā gatoti tathāgato? Yathā sampatijāto vipassī bhagavā gato…pe… kassapo bhagavā gato.

Kathañca so bhagavā gato? So hi sampati jātova samehi pādehi pathaviyaṃ patiṭṭhāya uttarābhimukho sattapadavītihārena gato. Yathāha – ‘‘sampatijāto kho, ānanda, bodhisatto samehi pādehi patiṭṭhahitvā uttarābhimukho sattapadavītihārena gacchati, setamhi chatte anudhāriyamāne sabbā ca disā anuviloketi, āsabhiṃ vācaṃ bhāsati – ‘aggohamasmi lokassa, jeṭṭhohamasmi lokassa, seṭṭhohamasmi lokassa, ayamantimā jāti, natthidāni punabbhavo’ti’’ (dī. ni. 2.31).

Tañcassa gamanaṃ tathaṃ ahosi? Avitathaṃ anekesaṃ visesādhigamānaṃ pubbanimittabhāvena. Yañhi so sampatijātova samehi pādehi patiṭṭhahi. Idamassa caturiddhipādapaṭilābhassa pubbanimittaṃ.

Uttarābhimukhabhāvo pana sabbalokuttarabhāvassa pubbanimittaṃ.

Sattapadavītihāro, sattabojjhaṅgaratanapaṭilābhassa.

‘‘Suvaṇṇadaṇḍā vītipatanti cāmarā’’ti, ettha vuttacāmarukkhepo pana sabbatitthiyanimmaddanassa.

Setacchattadhāraṇaṃ, arahattavimuttivaravimalasetacchattapaṭilābhassa.

Sattamapadūpari ṭhatvā sabbadisānuvilokanaṃ, sabbaññutānāvaraṇañāṇapaṭilābhassa.

Āsabhivācābhāsanaṃ appaṭivattiyavaradhammacakkappavattanassa pubbanimittaṃ.

Tathā ayaṃ bhagavāpi gato, tañcassa gamanaṃ tathaṃ ahosi, avitathaṃ, tesaṃyeva visesādhigamānaṃ pubbanimittabhāvena.

Tenāhu porāṇā –

‘‘Muhuttajātova gavampatī yathā,

Samehi pādehi phusī vasundharaṃ;

So vikkamī satta padāni gotamo,

Setañca chattaṃ anudhārayuṃ marū.

Gantvāna so satta padāni gotamo,

Disā vilokesi samā samantato;

Aṭṭhaṅgupetaṃ giramabbhudīrayi,

Sīho yathā pabbatamuddhaniṭṭhito’’ti.

Evaṃ tathā gatoti tathāgato.

Atha vā yathā vipassī bhagavā…pe… yathā kassapo bhagavā, ayampi bhagavā tatheva nekkhammena kāmacchandaṃ pahāya gato, abyāpādena byāpādaṃ, ālokasaññāya thinamiddhaṃ, avikkhepena uddhaccakukkuccaṃ, dhammavavatthānena vicikicchaṃ pahāya ñāṇena avijjaṃ padāletvā, pāmojjena aratiṃ vinodetvā, paṭhamajjhānena nīvaraṇakavāṭaṃ ugghāṭetvā, dutiyajjhānena vitakkavicāraṃ vūpasametvā, tatiyajjhānena pītiṃ virājetvā, catutthajjhānena sukhadukkhaṃ pahāya, ākāsānañcāyatanasamāpattiyā rūpasaññāpaṭighasaññānānattasaññāyo samatikkamitvā, viññāṇañcāyatanasamāpattiyā ākāsānañcāyatanasaññaṃ, ākiñcaññāyatanasamāpattiyā viññāṇañcāyatanasaññaṃ, nevasaññānāsaññāyatanasamāpattiyā ākiñcaññāyatanasaññaṃ samatikkamitvā gato.

Aniccānupassanāya niccasaññaṃ pahāya, dukkhānupassanāya sukhasaññaṃ, anattānupassanāya attasaññaṃ, nibbidānupassanāya nandiṃ, virāgānupassanāya rāgaṃ, nirodhānupassanāya samudayaṃ, paṭinissaggānupassanāya ādānaṃ, khayānupassanāya ghanasaññaṃ, vayānupassanāya āyūhanaṃ, vipariṇāmānupassanāya dhuvasaññaṃ, animittānupassanāya nimittaṃ, appaṇihitānupassanāya paṇidhiṃ, suññatānupassanāya abhinivesaṃ, adhipaññādhammavipassanāya sārādānābhinivesaṃ, yathābhūtañāṇadassanena sammohābhinivesaṃ, ādīnavānupassanāya ālayābhinivesaṃ, paṭisaṅkhānupassanāya appaṭisaṅkhaṃ, vivaṭṭānupassanāya saṃyogābhinivesaṃ, sotāpattimaggena diṭṭhekaṭṭhe kilese bhañjitvā, sakadāgāmimaggena oḷārike kilese pahāya, anāgāmimaggena aṇusahagate kilese samugghāṭetvā, arahattamaggena sabbakilese samucchinditvā gato. Evampi tathā gatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathalakkhaṇaṃ āgatoti tathāgato?Pathavīdhātuyā kakkhaḷattalakkhaṇaṃ tathaṃ avitathaṃ. Āpodhātuyā paggharaṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Tejodhātuyā uṇhattalakkhaṇaṃ. Vāyodhātuyā vitthambhanalakkhaṇaṃ. Ākāsadhātuyā asamphuṭṭhalakkhaṇaṃ. Viññāṇadhātuyā vijānanalakkhaṇaṃ.

Rūpassa ruppanalakkhaṇaṃ. Vedanāya vedayitalakkhaṇaṃ. Saññāya sañjānanalakkhaṇaṃ. Saṅkhārānaṃ abhisaṅkharaṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Viññāṇassa vijānanalakkhaṇaṃ.

Vitakkassa abhiniropanalakkhaṇaṃ. Vicārassa anumajjanalakkhaṇaṃ pītiyā pharaṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Sukhassa sātalakkhaṇaṃ. Cittekaggatāya avikkhepalakkhaṇaṃ. Phassassa phusanalakkhaṇaṃ.

Saddhindriyassa adhimokkhalakkhaṇaṃ. Vīriyindriyassa paggahalakkhaṇaṃ. Satindriyassa upaṭṭhānalakkhaṇaṃ. Samādhindriyassa avikkhepalakkhaṇaṃ. Paññindriyassa pajānanalakkhaṇaṃ.

Saddhābalassa assaddhiye akampiyalakkhaṇaṃ. Vīriyabalassa kosajje, satibalassa muṭṭhassacce. Samādhibalassa uddhacce, paññābalassa avijjāya akampiyalakkhaṇaṃ.

Satisambojjhaṅgassa upaṭṭhānalakkhaṇaṃ. Dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgassa pavicayalakkhaṇaṃ. Vīriyasambojjhaṅgassa paggahalakkhaṇaṃ. Pītisambojjhaṅgassa pharaṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Passaddhisambojjhaṅgassa vūpasamalakkhaṇaṃ. Samādhisambojjhaṅgassa avikkhepalakkhaṇaṃ. Upekkhāsambojjhaṅgassa paṭisaṅkhānalakkhaṇaṃ.

Sammādiṭṭhiyā dassanalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammāsaṅkappassa abhiniropanalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammāvācāya pariggahalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammākammantassa samuṭṭhānalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammāājīvassa vodānalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammāvāyāmassa paggahalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammāsatiyā upaṭṭhānalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammāsamādhissa avikkhepalakkhaṇaṃ.

Avijjāya aññāṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Saṅkhārānaṃ cetanālakkhaṇaṃ. Viññāṇassa vijānanalakkhaṇaṃ. Nāmassa namanalakkhaṇaṃ. Rūpassa ruppanalakkhaṇaṃ. Saḷāyatanassa āyatanalakkhaṇaṃ. Phassassa phusanalakkhaṇaṃ. Vedanāya vedayitalakkhaṇaṃ. Taṇhāya hetulakkhaṇaṃ. Upādānassa gahaṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Bhavassa āyūhanalakkhaṇaṃ. Jātiyā nibbattilakkhaṇaṃ. Jarāya jīraṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Maraṇassa cutilakkhaṇaṃ.

Dhātūnaṃ suññatālakkhaṇaṃ. Āyatanānaṃ āyatanalakkhaṇaṃ. Satipaṭṭhānānaṃ upaṭṭhānalakkhaṇaṃ. Sammappadhānānaṃ padahanalakkhaṇaṃ. Iddhipādānaṃ ijjhanalakkhaṇaṃ. Indriyānaṃ adhipatilakkhaṇaṃ. Balānaṃ akampiyalakkhaṇaṃ. Bojjhaṅgānaṃ niyyānalakkhaṇaṃ. Maggassa hetulakkhaṇaṃ.

Saccānaṃ tathalakkhaṇaṃ. Samathassa avikkhepalakkhaṇaṃ. Vipassanāya anupassanālakkhaṇaṃ. Samathavipassanānaṃ ekarasalakkhaṇaṃ. Yuganaddhānaṃ anativattanalakkhaṇaṃ.

Sīlavisuddhiyā saṃvaralakkhaṇaṃ. Cittavisuddhiyā avikkhepalakkhaṇaṃ. Diṭṭhivisuddhiyā dassanalakkhaṇaṃ.

Khaye ñāṇassa samucchedanalakkhaṇaṃ. Anuppāde ñāṇassa passaddhilakkhaṇaṃ.

Chandassa mūlalakkhaṇaṃ. Manasikārassa samuṭṭhāpanalakkhaṇaṃ. Phassassa samodhānalakkhaṇaṃ. Vedanāya samosaraṇalakkhaṇaṃ. Samādhissa pamukhalakkhaṇaṃ. Satiyā ādhipateyyalakkhaṇaṃ. Paññāya tatuttariyalakkhaṇaṃ. Vimuttiyā sāralakkhaṇaṃ… amatogadhassa nibbānassa pariyosānalakkhaṇaṃ tathaṃ avitathaṃ. Evaṃ tathalakkhaṇaṃ ñāṇagatiyā āgato avirajjhitvā patto anuppattoti tathāgato. Evaṃ tathalakkhaṇaṃ āgatoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathadhamme yāthāvato abhisambuddhoti tathāgato? Tathadhammā nāma cattāri ariyasaccāni. Yathāha – ‘‘cattārimāni, bhikkhave, tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni. Katamāni cattāri? ‘Idaṃ dukkha’nti bhikkhave, tathametaṃ avitathametaṃ anaññathameta’’nti (saṃ. ni. 5.1090) vitthāro. Tāni ca bhagavā abhisambuddho, tasmā tathānaṃ dhammānaṃ abhisambuddhattā tathāgatoti vuccati. Abhisambuddhattho hettha gatasaddo.

Api ca jarāmaraṇassa jātipaccayasambhūtasamudāgataṭṭho tatho avitatho anaññatho…pe…, saṅkhārānaṃ avijjāpaccayasambhūtasamudāgataṭṭho tatho avitatho anaññatho…pe…, tathā avijjāya saṅkhārānaṃ paccayaṭṭho, saṅkhārānaṃ viññāṇassa paccayaṭṭho…pe…, jātiyā jarāmaraṇassa paccayaṭṭho tatho avitatho anaññatho. Taṃ sabbaṃ bhagavā abhisambuddho, tasmāpi tathānaṃ dhammānaṃ abhisambuddhattā tathāgatoti vuccati. Evaṃ tathadhamme yāthāvato abhisambuddhoti tathāgato.

Kathaṃ tathadassitāya tathāgato? Bhagavā yaṃ sadevake loke…pe…, sadevamanussāya pajāya aparimāṇāsu lokadhātūsu aparimāṇānaṃ sattānaṃ cakkhudvāre āpāthamāgacchantaṃ rūpārammaṇaṃ nāma atthi, taṃ sabbākārato jānāti passati. Evaṃ jānatā passatā ca, tena taṃ iṭṭhāniṭṭhādivasena vā diṭṭhasutamutaviññātesu labbhamānakapadavasena vā. ‘‘Katamaṃ taṃ rūpaṃ rūpāyatanaṃ? Yaṃ rūpaṃ catunnaṃ mahābhūtānaṃ upādāya vaṇṇanibhā sanidassanaṃ sappaṭighaṃ nīlaṃ pītaka’’ntiādinā (dha. sa. 616) nayena anekehi nāmehi terasahi vārehi dvepaññāsāya nayehi vibhajjamānaṃ tathameva hoti, vitathaṃ natthi. Esa nayo sotadvārādīsupi āpāthaṃ āgacchantesu saddādīsu. Vuttañcetaṃ bhagavatā – ‘‘yaṃ bhikkhave, sadevakassa lokassa…pe… sadevamanussāya pajāya diṭṭhaṃ sutaṃ mutaṃ viññātaṃ pattaṃ pariyesitaṃ anuvicaritaṃ manasā, tamahaṃ jānāmi. Tamahaṃ abbhaññāsiṃ, taṃ tathāgatassa viditaṃ, taṃ tathāgato na upaṭṭhāsī’’ti (a. ni. 4.24). Evaṃ tathadassitāya tathāgato. Tattha tathadassī atthe tathāgatoti padasambhavo veditabbo.

Kathaṃ tathavāditāya tathāgato? Yaṃ rattiṃ bhagavā bodhimaṇḍe aparājitapallaṅke nisinno tiṇṇaṃ mārānaṃ matthakaṃ madditvā anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambuddho, yañca rattiṃ yamakasālānamantare anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā parinibbāyi, etthantare pañcacattālīsavassaparimāṇe kāle paṭhamabodhiyāpi majjhimabodhiyāpi pacchimabodhiyāpi yaṃ bhagavatā bhāsitaṃ – suttaṃ, geyyaṃ…pe… vedallaṃ, taṃ sabbaṃ atthato ca byañjanato ca anupavajjaṃ, anūnamanadhikaṃ, sabbākāraparipuṇṇaṃ, rāgamadanimmadanaṃ, dosamohamadanimmadanaṃ. Natthi tattha vālaggamattampi avakkhalitaṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ ekamuddikāya lañchitaṃ viya, ekanāḷiyā mitaṃ viya, ekatulāya tulitaṃ viya ca, tathameva hoti avitathaṃ anaññathaṃ. Tenāha – ‘‘yañca, cunda, rattiṃ tathāgato anuttaraṃ sammāsambodhiṃ abhisambujjhati, yañca rattiṃ anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā parinibbāyati, yaṃ etasmiṃ antare bhāsati lapati niddisati, sabbaṃ taṃ tatheva hoti, no aññathā. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccatī’’ti (a. ni. 4.23). Gadattho hettha gatasaddo. Evaṃ tathavāditāya tathāgato.

Api ca āgadanaṃ āgado, vacananti attho. Tayo aviparīto āgado assāti, da-kārassa ta-kāraṃ katvā tathāgatoti evametasmiṃ atthe padasiddhi veditabbā.

Kathaṃ tathākāritāya tathāgato? Bhagavato hi vācāya kāyo anulometi, kāyassapi vācā, tasmā yathāvādī tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī ca hoti. Evaṃbhūtassa cassa yathāvācā, kāyopi tathā gato pavattoti attho. Yathā ca kāyo, vācāpi tathā gatā pavattāti tathāgato. Tenevāha – ‘‘yathāvādī, bhikkhave, tathāgato tathākārī, yathākārī tathāvādī. Iti yathāvādī tathākārī yathākārī tathāvādī. Tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccatī’’ti (a. ni. 4.23). Evaṃ tathākāritāya tathāgato.

Kathaṃ abhibhavanaṭṭhena tathāgato? Upari bhavaggaṃ heṭṭhā avīciṃ pariyantaṃ katvā tiriyaṃ aparimāṇāsu lokadhātūsu sabbasatte abhibhavati sīlenapi samādhināpi paññāyapi vimuttiyāpi, vimuttiñāṇadassanenapi na tassa tulā vā pamāṇaṃ vā atthi; atulo appameyyo anuttaro rājātirājā devadevo sakkānaṃ atisakko brahmānaṃ atibrahmā. Tenāha – ‘‘sadevake, bhikkhave, loke…pe… sadevamanussāya pajāya tathāgato abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthudaso vasavattī, tasmā ‘tathāgato’ti vuccatī’’ti.

Tatrevaṃ padasiddhi veditabbā. Agado viya agado. Ko panesa? Desanāvilāsamayo ceva puññussayo ca. Tena hesa mahānubhāvo bhisakko dibbāgadena sappe viya sabbaparappavādino sadevakañca lokaṃ abhibhavati. Iti sabbālokābhibhavane tatho aviparīto desanāvilāsamayo ceva puññussayo ca agado assāti. Da-kārassa ta-kāraṃ katvā tathāgatoti veditabbo. Evaṃ abhibhavanaṭṭhena tathāgato.

Api ca tathāya gatotipi tathāgato, tathaṃ gatotipi tathāgato. Gatoti avagato, atīto patto paṭipannoti attho.

Tattha sakalalokaṃ tīraṇapariññāya tathāya gato avagatoti tathāgato. Lokasamudayaṃ pahānapariññāya tathāya gato atītoti tathāgato. Lokanirodhaṃ sacchikiriyāya tathāya gato pattoti tathāgato. Lokanirodhagāminiṃ paṭipadaṃ tathaṃ gato paṭipannoti tathāgato. Tena vuttaṃ bhagavatā –

‘‘Loko, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho, lokasmā tathāgato visaṃyutto. Lokasamudayo, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho, lokasamudayo tathāgatassa pahīno. Lokanirodho, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddho, lokanirodho tathāgatassa sacchikato. Lokanirodhagāminī paṭipadā, bhikkhave, tathāgatena abhisambuddhā, lokanirodhagāminī paṭipadā tathāgatassa bhāvitā. Yaṃ bhikkhave, sadevakassa lokassa…pe… sabbaṃ taṃ tathāgatena abhisambuddhaṃ. Tasmā, tathāgatoti vuccatī’’ti (a. ni. 4.23).

Tassapi evaṃ attho veditabbo. Idampi ca tathāgatassa tathāgatabhāvadīpane mukhamattameva. Sabbākārena pana tathāgatova tathāgatassa tathāgatabhāvaṃ vaṇṇeyya.

Silakkhandhavagga-Atthakatha 1.59
« Последнее редактирование: 13 Март 2016 11:01 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #4 : 05 Март 2009 18:49 »

Таким образом, хотя в одном комментарии и перечисляются разнообразные трактовки, в двух комментариях приводится однозначное объяснение --

tathāni āgatoti tathāgato

Татхагата -- тот, кто достиг (āgato) [четырех] истин (tathāni).

ИМХО подозрительно похоже на "народную этимологию". Не очень понятно, чем не нравится нормальное палийское "Х + gata" в значении "тот, кому присуще качество Х" (напр. avijjagata - невежественный человек).

Лично мне больше нравится классический английский перевод "gone into suchness".
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #5 : 05 Март 2009 19:03 »

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нравится классический английский перевод

Почему вы думаете, что это классический перевод?
« Последнее редактирование: 05 Март 2009 19:05 от Asita »
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #6 : 05 Март 2009 19:04 »

Таким образом, хотя в одном комментарии и перечисляются разнообразные трактовки, в двух комментариях приводится однозначное объяснение --  tathāni āgatoti tathāgato Татхагата -- тот, кто достиг (āgato) [четырех] истин (tathāni).
ИМХО подозрительно похоже на "народную этимологию".
"Народная этимология", это реалия индийской жизни. Насколько я понимю она не преследует цель показать историческое происхождение слова, а лишь только раскрытие смыслов.

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Не очень понятно, чем не нравится нормальное палийское "Х + gata" в значении "тот, кому присуще качество Х" (напр. avijjagata - невежественный человек). Лично мне больше нравится классический английский перевод "gone into suchness".
Дело тут не в том, что кому нравится или не нравится. А таков комментарий по значениям слова "татхагата", так его понимали тогда в Индии, такой смысл вкладывал сам Будда так его понимали арахаты. Смысл, который вкладывал Будда не определяется по тому как слово произошло (научная этимология).
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #7 : 05 Март 2009 19:39 »

Это ещё вопрос: не сам ли Будда придумал этот термин? Я склоняюсь как раз к такой точке зрения. Я не думаю, что в "реалиях индийской жизни" было очень много Татхагат.

Может, перевод и не очень классический, но он найден где-то на 10-й странице учебника Гейра (весьма популярного) и попадался мне несколько раз в других местах.

В споры по всем этим поводам входить не буду, но за темой послежу.
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #8 : 05 Март 2009 19:47 »


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Может, перевод и не очень классический

По-моему, совсем не "классический".

В переводах PTS используются другие переводы этого термина, насколько я могу судить.
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #9 : 05 Март 2009 19:52 »

Кстати, справедливости ради, речь здесь идёт не об этимологии, происхождении словоформы, а о расшифровке сложного слова (компаунда, композиты, samasa).
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #10 : 05 Март 2009 22:31 »

ИМХО подозрительно похоже на "народную этимологию". Не очень понятно, чем не нравится нормальное палийское "Х + gata" в значении "тот, кому присуще качество Х" (напр. avijjagata - невежественный человек).

Вопрос не в том, какое толкование нравится или не нравится, а какое подлинно и исторично.

В Аттхакатхе приводится как минимум восемь толкований, в том числе то, о котором Вы говорите. Но это как раз напоминает на игру со словами исходя из самих слов, "народную этимологию".

То, что в двух местах Аттхакатхи приводится однозначное толкование, может свидетельствовать о том, что тут как раз сохранилось исходное основное значение.

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Лично мне больше нравится классический английский перевод "gone into suchness".

Как я понял, Вы говорите о переводе, предложенном Каролиной Рис-Девидс, и отраженном в пали-английском словаре Рис-Девидса:

Tathāgata [Derivation uncertain. Buddhaghosa (DA i.59 -- 67) gives eight explanations showing that there was no fixed tradition on the point, and that he himself was in doubt]. The context shows that the word is an epithet of an Arahant, and that non -- Buddhists were supposed to know what it meant. The compilers of the Nikāyas must therefore have considered the expression as pre -- Buddhistic; but it has not yet been found in any pre -- Buddhistic work. Mrs. Rhys Davids (Dhs. tr. 1099, quoting Chalmers J.R.A.S. Jan., 1898) suggests "he who has won through to the truth." Had the early Buddhists invented a word with this meaning it would probably have been tathaŋgata, but not necessarily, for we have upadhī -- karoti as well as upadhiŋ karoti. -- D i.12, 27, 46, 63; ii.68, 103, 108, 115, 140, 142; iii.14, 24 sq., 32 sq., 115, 217, 264 sq., 273 sq.; S i.110 sq.; ii.222 sq.; iii.215; iv.127, 380 sq.; A i.286; ii.17, 25, 120; iii.35, etc.; Sn 236, 347, 467, 557, 1114; It 121 sq.; KhA 196; Ps i.121 sq.; Dhs 1099, 1117, 1234; Vbh 325 sq., 340, etc., etc.
   -- balāni (pl.) the supreme intellectual powers of a T. usually enumd as a set of ten: in detail at A v.33 sq. =Ps ii.174; M i.69; S ii.27; Nd2 466. Other sets of five at A iii.9; of six A iii.417 sq. (see bala); -- sāvaka a disciple of the T. D ii.142; A i.90; ii.4; iii.326 sq.; It 88; Sn p. 15.

Такой перевод не общепринят. В переводах с пали трудно говорить о "классичности" трактовок, поскольку они активно совершенствуются и уточняются, например, тем же Бхиккху Бодхи.

В английском оригинале учебника Гейра и Карунатиллаке

http://books.google.com/books?id=5zfD-8oUeFEC&pg=PA16&vq=Tathagata

слово "Tathagata" переводится как "The thus gone one".

Этот популярный вариант перевода, вероятно, связан с соответствующей трактовкой этого термина в китайских махаянских текстах.

В приведенных выше первоисточниках, суттах, такого варианта трактовки вообще нет.
Прежде всего это слово трактуется в смысле Постижения.

Поэтому в переводе учебника Гейра я написал:

Tathāgato
«Татхагата» – одно из имен Будды, буквально «достигший того, как оно есть» (достигший истины). (В другой интерпретации «так ушедший»).
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #11 : 05 Март 2009 23:17 »

Каюсь, в учебнике Гейра не сказано конкретно про слово "Татхагата", но сделан "тонкий намёк":

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11.2. Сложные слова с ‘-gata’: когда gata «дошедший», совершенное причастие от ‘gacchati’ «идти», используется как последняя часть сложного слова, оно может иметь особое значение «достигший», «наделенный», или «приверженный (идущий за кем-либо, следующий чему-либо)»:

В пример приводится avijjaagata.

Почему Гейр игнорирует "Татхагату", хотя это слово возникает буквально в следующем абзаце - я затрудняюсь сказать.

Простой поиск по Типитаке даёт более сотни слов с суффиксом -gata, только для именительного падежа мужского рода на -o.

Собственно смысл поста был в том, что таковая интерпретация является грамматически и логически разумной, поэтому при обсуждении вариантов перевода её следует по крайней мере учитывать.
« Последнее редактирование: 05 Март 2009 23:27 от vladislavk »
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #12 : 05 Март 2009 23:23 »

Этот популярный вариант перевода, вероятно, связан с соответствующей трактовкой этого термина в китайских махаянских текстах.
Если интересует, то для сравнения, из китайского/махаянского текста Mahaprajnaparamitasastra, там только две трактовки:
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Why is he called To t'o a k'ie t'o (tathāgata)?
1. He preaches the natures of the dharmas (dharmalakṣaṇa) in the way (tathā) that he has understood (gata) them.
2. In the way that the [previous] Buddhas have gone by the path of safety (yogakṣemamārga), thus (tathā) the [actual] Buddha is going (gata) and will not go on to new existences (punarbhāva).251
______
251 Cf. Sumaṅgala, I, p. 60-62 (second explanation).
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #13 : 05 Март 2009 23:44 »

А, всё, я понял. Меня смутило tathāni, я не знал, что tatha имеет второе значение. Действительно, между интерпретациями нет существенных различий, хотя всё же толкование -gata как своего рода суффикса мне кажется более изящным, чем фрагмент из Комментария, но это уже частности.
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #14 : 06 Март 2009 09:07 »

Этот популярный вариант перевода, вероятно, связан с соответствующей трактовкой этого термина в китайских махаянских текстах.
Если интересует, то для сравнения, из китайского/махаянского текста Mahaprajnaparamitasastra, там только две трактовки:
Цитировать
Why is he called To t'o a k'ie t'o (tathāgata)?
1. He preaches the natures of the dharmas (dharmalakṣaṇa) in the way (tathā) that he has understood (gata) them.
2. In the way that the [previous] Buddhas have gone by the path of safety (yogakṣemamārga), thus (tathā) the [actual] Buddha is going (gata) and will not go on to new existences (punarbhāva).251
______
251 Cf. Sumaṅgala, I, p. 60-62 (second explanation).

Спасибо! Вот эту трактовку "так ушедший" я и имел в виду.

В самом китайском слове:

如來 или 如来

уже закреплена сходная трактовка, как написал профессор Торчинов:

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Татхагата — один из важнейших эпитетов Будды, переводимый с санскрита или “Так Приходящий” (tatha gata), или “Так Уходящий” (tatha agata), что обычно в махаянских текстах интерпретируется как “Ушедший в Истинную Реальность — таковость” или “Пришедший из Истинной реальности”. На китайский язык это слово переводится однозначно: “Так Приходящий” (кит. жу лай).

http://www.members.tripod.com/~etor_best/mahayanacom.html
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #15 : 01 Июль 2009 22:19 »

Обсуждение этого вопроса на англоязычном форуме:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=218
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #16 : 16 Август 2010 07:49 »

Из Аттхакатхи:

‘‘Tattha katame satta bojjhaṅgā? Idha bhikkhu yasmiṃ samaye lokuttaraṃ jhānaṃ bhāveti…pe… tasmiṃ samaye satta bojjhaṅgā honti satisambojjhaṅgo…pe… upekkhāsambojjhaṅgo. Tattha katamo satisambojjhaṅgo? Yā sati…pe… anussatī’’tiādinā (vibha. 478-479) channavutiyā nayasahassavibhāgehīti evaṃ nānākārato pavattāni bhagavato sambojjhaṅgavibhāvanañāṇāni tassa tassa atthassa avisaṃvādanato tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni. Evampi bhagavā tathāni āgatoti tathāgato.

Каких именно истин (tathāni) достиг Благословенный (bhagavā), может дать представление сутта Tathasutta:

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‘‘Cattārimāni, bhikkhave, tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni. Katamāni cattāri? ‘Idaṃ dukkha’nti, bhikkhave, tathametaṃ avitathametaṃ anaññathametaṃ ; ‘ayaṃ dukkhasamudayo’ti tathametaṃ avitathametaṃ anaññathametaṃ; ‘ayaṃ dukkhanirodho’ti tathametaṃ avitathametaṃ anaññathametaṃ; ‘ayaṃ  dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti tathametaṃ avitathametaṃ anaññathametaṃ – imāni kho, bhikkhave, cattāri tathāni avitathāni anaññathāni.
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #17 : 24 Июнь 2014 08:44 »

Хотелось бы подвести пусть и неокончательную, а скорее промежуточную черту под трактовками палийского tathāgata как эпитета Будды, данными в этой теме и отметить еще вот что по поводу термина tathāgata.
Пия Тан, в своей работе, посвященной Малой сутте о беседе с Малукьей (Cūḷamālukya Sutta, pdf), ссылаясь на Нормана (Norman, "Death and the Tathāgata"), упоминает о том, что в отношении четырех вопросов о существовании татхагаты после смерти комментарии понимают в этом случае под татхагатой просто существо - satta.

Вот некоторые выдержки из комментариев по этому поводу

К сутте Brahmajāla Sutta
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Hoti tathāgatotiādīsu satto ‘‘tathāgato’’ti adhippeto.

В сутте Paṭhama-nānātitthiya Sutta из Уданы рассказывается, как придерживающиеся различных воззрений люди, - шраманы, брамины и ушедшие из дома странники, - спорили, что называется, "по списку" известных вопросов, в том числе, и по вопросу о существовании татхагаты:
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Tena kho pana samayena sambahulā nānātitthiyasamaṇabrāhmaṇaparibbājakā sāvatthiyaṃ paṭivasanti nānādiṭṭhikā nānākhantikā nānārucikā nānādiṭṭhinissayanissitā...
Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṃvādino evaṃdiṭṭhino – ‘‘hoti tathāgato paraṃ maraṇā, idameva saccaṃ moghamañña’’nti...

Комментарий также толкует в данном случае tathāgata как satta и называет это обозначением для того, кто "достиг такого состояния". Соответствующие решения вопроса о существовании и не существовании татхагаты связываются с учениями о вечности (sassatavāda) и об уничтожении (ucchedavāda):
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Hoti tathāgato paraṃ maraṇāti ettha tathāgatoti satto. Tañhi diṭṭhigatiko kārakavedakādisaṅkhātaṃ, niccadhuvādisaṅkhātaṃ vā tathābhāvaṃ gatoti tathāgatoti voharati, so maraṇato idhakāyassa bhedato paraṃ uddhaṃ hoti, atthi saṃvijjatīti attho. Etena sassataggāhamukhena soḷasa saññīvādā aṭṭha asaññīvādā aṭṭha ca nevasaññīnāsaññīvādā dassitā honti. Na hotīti natthi na upalabbhati. Etena ucchedavādo dassito. Hoti ca na ca hotīti atthi ca natthi cāti. Etena ekaccasassatavādā satta saññīvādā ca dassitā. Neva hoti na na hotīti iminā pana amarāvikkhepavādo dassitoti veditabbaṃ.

Пия Тан пишет:
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  The Sutta’s commentary simply glosses tathāgata here as “a being” (satta) (MA 3:141). The Sub-commentary explains that this refers to “a being” who thus arises here on account of karmic defilement, and then to one state after another. The Udāna Commentary (PTS edition) gives the reading “self” (atta). The Saṁyutta Subcommentary similarly defines it “here” as “self” (attā). We can safely accept that here tathāgata has the sense of “a creature, a sentient being” (DP meaning 3), as this is well attested in the suttas and Commentaries. The word tathāgata literally means “one who has gone that way, or one who has gone to such a state” (Norman 1991a:6). However, after the Buddha’s passing, the word tathāgata, like sugata (which origin - ally must have simply meant “one who has fared well”), is also used specifically of the Buddha. In some contexts, they clearly refer to the Buddha in others, the Buddha would use tathāgata reflexively, that is, when referring to himself or generically (the Buddhas). Often enough, too, he is recorded as using the first person pronoun, ahaṃ.
  Buddhaghosa, in his commentary on the Brahmajala Sutta (D 1), for example, gives lengthy and fanciful etymologies and explanations of the word tathāgata. However, it is interesting, notes Norman, that when the word tathāgata is used in a question directed to the Buddha, which he refuses to answer, the Commentaries still do not take tathāgata in the sense of the Buddha, but explain it as satta "being".
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  We are accustomed to take the word tathāgata as being synonymous with Buddha, but it is very unlikely that all those who were discussing these questions in the passages recorded in the Udāna were actually discussing whether the Buddha lives or does not live after death. It is noteworthy that the commentarial tradition followed by Dhammapāla explains tathāgata as attā : "Does the self exist after death?" Although the list of questions which we have is clearly a stereotyped one, we can assume that it was based upon questions which occupied the mind of the religious teachers who were contemporary with the Buddha. The four questions concerning the existence of a tathāgata after death are in fact included among those to which Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta is reported by Ajātasattu to have given a prevaricating answer.(Norman 1991a:2)

Вот отрывок из субкомментария к сутте Paṭhamasāriputtakoṭṭhika Sutta, в которой досточтимый Сарипутта разъясняет, что любой из четырех ответов на вопрос о существовании татхагаты после смерти подразумевает отсылку к одной из присваиваемых совокупностей (rūpa, vedanā и т.д.):

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Rūpamattanti ettha matta-saddo visesanivattiattho. Ko pana so visesoti? Yo bāhiraparikappito idha tathāgatoti vuccamāno attā.
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Re: Перевод "tathāgata"
« Ответ #18 : 17 Июль 2017 23:22 »

Из Дхаммика сутты:

...

In[1] ancient times when seafaring merchants put to sea in ships, they took with them a bird to sight land. When the ship was out of sight of land, they released the bird; and it flew eastward and westward, northward and southward, upward and all around. And if the bird saw no land, it returned to the ship; but if the bird sighted land nearby, it was truly gone.[2]

...

2. The word used here for "truly gone" is tathagatako (translated by E.M. Hare in the PTS edition as "gone for good"), and this story helps us considerably in understanding how the Buddha used the epithet "Tathagata" to describe himself.
   
His given name was Siddhattha; as a wandering ascetic he went by his mother's clan name, Gotama; he was known throughout his world as the sage of his father's family, or Sakyamuni; and when enlightened he became known as Buddha, the Awakened One. His followers most often referred to him as Bhagavant, or "Blessed One," but the name he almost always used for himself was Tathagata.
   
Tathagata has always been an awkward word to translate. Tatha on its own means something like "so," "thus," or "in this way"; and gata is the past participle of the verb to go, and simply means "gone." We therefore often find the phrase translated in the texts as "Thus-gone" or "the Thus-Gone one." The commentator Buddhaghosa lists eight different ways the word can be construed (Digha Atthakatha 1.59), and in the process engages in some characteristically creative etymology.
   
I admit to having never really understood the import of the term Tathagata — until I came across this story. With the image of the bird released by the sailors, searching for land upon which to alight, a number of things began to fall into place.
   
To begin with we should recognize two ways the expression is used: one referring to the Buddha as a being who will no longer be reborn, and the other describing how the consciousness of an awakened person still in this world relates to the object of experience.
   
Sometimes when one of the arahants passes away, Mara like a dark cloud can be seen searching for where their consciousness has become re-established (i.e., reborn). In such cases, the Buddha says of the arahant that their consciousness is "not stationed anew anywhere" (e.g., SN 22.87). In this sense the Buddha is clearly using the epithet "Tathagata" to mean that he will not be reborn again — like the bird leaving the ship without returning, his consciousness does not alight again in any of the worlds to become re-bound with another body.
   
But there is also a sense in which the phrase aptly describes the nature of the awakened mind here in this life. When his questioners try to pin the Buddha down about whether his consciousness survives after death, he rebukes them by saying that even here and now the consciousness of a Tathagata is untraceable, since there is no means of measuring or knowing it (e.g., Sn 1074). The awakened mind is said to be unattached to anything in the world — like a bird that does not alight upon and thus get bound to any object of experience.
   
In fact learning to un-attach the mind from its fetters is a good deal of what insight meditation training is all about. The Satipatthana Sutta,  for example, (the main text that gives instructions for insight meditation) states that when practicing mindfulness properly a person "abides independent, not clinging to anything in the world" (MN 10).  The householder Anathapindika, just before his death, received instructions from Sariputta urging him to train himself thus: "I will not cling to what is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, encountered, sought after, and examined by the mind; my consciousness will not be dependent on any of that" (MN 143).
   
All this combines to suggest that a crucial aspect of the Buddha's teaching is the notion of consciousness being unattached to mental or physical objects. In moment-to-moment practice this means letting go of attachments and letting experience be simply what it is. Perhaps with proper practice we can live as a bird freely circling the ship of our body and our world, rather than as one imprisoned in a cage on its deck.
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