Джек Корнфилд, основатель Іsight Meditation Society
http://www.spiritrock.com/download/SRNews15-28-final.pdfIn Mahasi’s model, enlightenment, at least stream entry, the first taste of nirvana, comes as a cessation of experience in the deepest state of concentration and attention, when the body and mind is dissolved and we rest in perfect equanimity. Body and mind drop away, there is a cessation of the experience of the ordinary senses, and an opening into that which is unconditioned, timeless and liberating—nirvana. Like Zen satori, this moment brings a whole new way of knowing. But there are a lot of questions around this kind of moment. Sometimes it seems to have enormously transformative effects on people as they say. Other times people have this moment of experience, and they don’t really get changed by it at all. Sometimes they’re not even sure what happened. In this form, maybe three percent of the people who go to Mahasi’s monastery would have such a stream entry experience. So if you have a thousand people practicing at a time, while perhaps only three percent awaken in this way, it means there are 30 people having stream entry experiences and maybe another hundred who are deep in the progress of insight or something like that. It’s a lot of people having really cool experiences—although there are the other 870 who aren’t anywhere near that level.
Even so, retreats are amazing. I had fantastic experiences and learned a great deal from those intensive retreats. The insights and freedom you can touch are very beneficial. Of course when I came back to Ajahn Chah’s monastery, I told him about all of the experiences I’d had. He just looked at me and smiled and said, “Good. Something else to let go of.” And that was his perspective—he appreciated the experiences, but even if they were a taste of enlightenment, when they were done, he was interested in whether I could embody them moment-by-moment here and now.
At Ajahn Chah’s monastery, his belief and teaching about nirvana and stream entry was different. He also spoke about it as the “unconditioned.” And he said at one point, “If you’ve been in this monastery for six months or a year and haven’t entered the stream, haven’t tasted the unconditioned, I don’t know what you’ve been doing. You haven’t been practicing correctly.” If you followed his teachings correctly you became mindful of the constantly changing conditions of sight, sound, taste, smell, physical perceptions, feelings and thoughts. Through mindfulness practice we begin to experience how conditioned the world is, how these conditions are constantly changing.
Суммируя данные на русском:
- около 3% проходящих ретриты (интересно, какой длительности) Махаси Саядо "входили в поток";
- Ачан Ча как-то сказал: "Если вы уже шесть месяцев или год в этом монастыре, и не вошли в поток, не испытали необусловленного, не знаю, чем вы тут занимались. Вы не практиковали правильно."
По поводу достижений в традиции Махаси Саядо, то, насколько я помню, бханте Вималарамси достиг того, что считали ниббаной в одном из центров Махаси Саядо, не удовлетворился этим, и разработал свою систему практики.
Еще:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanavira_TheraÑāṇavīra Thera apparently attained sotāpatti, or Stream-entry, on 26.6.1959.
О Нянавира Тхере, британеце, принявшем монашество на Шри-Ланке, написано, что он достиг сотапатти.
Еще за последние пару лет я услышал, что во время визита в Петербург Ачан Сумедхо сказал, что устранил три оковы (то есть стал вошедшим в поток), во время ретрита в Подмосковье говорил, что "I have no self" ("У меня нет я"), и еще я слышал о нескольких мьянманских учителях, что они достигли одного из 4 плодов.
Zom на БФ пересчитал, что Арахант сделать не может:
1. Накапливать имущество
2. Намеренно убить любую форму жизни
3. Воровать
4. Быть сексуально активным
5. Говорить намеренную ложь
6. Действовать исходя из неумелого корня желания
7. Действовать исходя из неумелого корня недоброжелательности
8. Действовать исходя из неумелого корня неведения
9. Бояться
Я не уверен по поводу 1. Накапливать имущество.
Автор
Тема: Архаты сейчас (Прочитано 9344 раз)