Джхана в Висуддхимагге

[Кусярон]

Уважаемые друзья,

Говорят, что в Висуддхимагге утверждается, что с первой джханой прекращается восприятие пятью органами чувств. Я почему-то не смог найти этого места в тексте.

Не можете ли подсказать, где написано это или что-то подобное?

[Zom]

Об этом сказано в X 16, 17.

[Кусярон]

Спасибо, вот эти абзацы:

With the disppearance of perceptions of resistance: perceptions of
resistance are perceptions arisen through the impact of the physical base
consisting of the eye, etc., and the respective objects consisting of visible
objects, etc.; and this is a term for perception of visible objects (rupa)
and so on, according as it is said: 'Here, what are perceptions of resistance?
Perceptions of visible objects, perceptions of sounds, perceptions
of odours, perceptions of flavours, perceptions of tangible objects—these
are called "perceptions of resistance"' (Vbh. 261); with the complete
disappearance, the abandoning, the non-arising, of these ten kinds of perceptions
of resistance, that is to say, of the five profitable-resultant and
five unprofitable-resultant;1 causing their non-occurrence, is what is meant.
17. Of course, these are not to be found in one who has entered upon the
first jhana, etc., either; for consciousness at that time does not occur by
way of the five doors. Still [330] the mention of them here should be
understood as a recommendation of this jhana for the purpose of arousing
interest in it, just as in the case of the fourth jhana there is mention of
the pleasure and pain already abandoned elsewhere, and in the case of
the third path there is mention of the [false] view of personality, etc.,
already abandoned earlier.

[Кусярон]

Абзацы выше - из главы об арупа-самапатти.

В главе о джханах (IV) нашел только вот что (о 3 джхане):

175. Now, as to the clause he feels bliss with his body: here, although in
one actually possessed of the third jhana there is no concern about feeling
bliss, nevertheless he would feel the bliss associated with his mental
body, and after emerging from the jhana he would also feel bliss since
his material body would have been affected by the exceedingly superior
matter originated by that bliss associated with the mental body.47 It is in
order to point to this meaning that the words 4he feels bliss with his
body' are said.

Есть ли что-то еще?

[Zom]

Думаю, наверное, другого нет. Если искать инфу о сабже, то наверное это надо делать уже в Комментариях или Абхидхамме.

[Ассаджи]

Висуддхимагга довольно противоречива в вопросах практики, видимо, в связи с тем, что в этих вопросах досточтимый Буддхагхоса полагался не на свой собственный опыт.

В десятой главе говорится:

"17. Of course, these [perceptions of visible objects, perceptions of sounds, perceptions of odours, perceptions of flavours, perceptions of tangible objects] are not to be found in one who has entered upon the first jhana, etc., either; for consciousness at that time does not occur by way of the five doors."

Однако чуть позже приводится пояснение:

"19. In fact it is because they [i.e. sensory phenomena] have not been abandoned already before this that it was said by the Blessed One that sound is a thorn to one who has the first jhana (A. v, 135). And it is precisely because they are abandoned here that the imperturbability (see Vbh. 135) of the immaterial attainments and their state of peaceful liberation are mentioned (M.i,33), and that Alara Kalama neither saw the five hundred carts that passed close by him nor heard the sound of them while he was in an immaterial attainment."

в пользу того, что до бестелесных достижений чувственное восприятие сохраняется.

Один из возможных тут источников недоразумений - то, что в палийском оригинале в параграфе 17 речь идет об (избирательном) распознавании (сання), а переведено это слово как "восприятие" (perception).

[Кусярон]

Еще в пользу присутствия телесного восприятия говорит описание фактора пити, - в Висуддхимагге говорится, что он заполняет тело:

4.98. But when pervading (rapturous) happiness arises, the whole body is
completely pervaded, like a filled bladder, like a rock cavern invaded by
a huge inundation.
4.99. Now this fivefold happiness, when conceived and matured, perfects
the twofold tranquillity, that is, bodily and mental tranquillity. When
tranquillity is conceived and matured, it perfects the twofold bliss, that
is, bodily and mental bliss. When bliss is conceived and matured, it
perfects the threefold concentration, that is, momentary concentration,
access concentration, and absorption concentration.
Of these, what is intended in this context by happiness is pervading
happiness, which is the root of absorption and comes by growth into
association with absorption. [145]

Если прекращение деятельности 5 чувств было бы частью "системы" дост. Буддагхосы, - то это по идее должно было бы артикулироваться четко, а не вскользь; и в описании первой джханы, а не третьей и арупа-самапатти. Так, как это делают Па Аук Саядо и Ачан Брахмавамсо.

Наверное, да, легче всего предположить отсутствие четкой системы относительно джхан в Висуддхимагге.

[Ассаджи]

В продолжение темы, еще один абзац из Висуддхимагги IV.187:

187. For accordingly, during the first jhāna access, which has multiple adverting, there could be rearising of the [bodily] pain faculty due to contact with gadflies, flies, etc. or the discomfort of an uneven seat, though that pain faculty had already ceased, but not so during absorption. Or else, though it has ceased during access, it has not absolutely ceased there since it is not quite beaten out by opposition. But during absorption the whole body is showered with bliss owing to pervasion by happiness. And the pain faculty has absolutely ceased in one whose body is showered with bliss, since it is beaten out then by opposition.