Что такое Тхеравада credit

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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #20 : 18:37 25 Апреля 2016 »

Книга под редакцией Питера Скиллинга "How Theravāda is Theravāda? Exploring Buddhist Identities"

Главы из этой книги:

Was Buddhaghosa a Theravādin? Buddhist identity in the Pali commentaries and chronicles
Rupert Gethin

https://www.academia.edu/24142416/Was_Buddhaghosa_a_Therav%C4%81din_Buddhist_identity_in_the_Pali_commentaries_and_chronicles

The Teachings of the Abhayagiri School
L. S. Cousins

https://www.academia.edu/4104205/The_Teachings_of_the_Abhayagiri_School_pp._67_127


Sthavira, Thera and Sthaviravāda in Chinese Buddhist Sources
Max Deeg

https://www.academia.edu/11700859/Sthavira_Thera_and_Sthaviravadin_in_Chinese_Buddhist_Sources

Lineage, Inheritance, and Belonging: Expressions of Monastic Affiliation from Laṅkā
Anne M. Blackburn

https://www.academia.edu/29982809/Lineage_Inheritance_and_Belonging_Expressions_of_Monastic_Affiliation_From_La%E1%B9%85k%C4%81

How Theravada is Theravada - Chapter eight: The Benefits of Ordination according to the Paramatthamangala
Claudio Cicuzza

https://www.academia.edu/3679210/How_Theravada_is_Theravada_-_Chapter_eight_The_Benefits_of_Ordination_according_to_the_Paramatthamangala
« Последнее редактирование: 18:13 25 Января 2017 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #21 : 20:15 29 Января 2017 »

В 8-12 веке в Индии термином "Арья-стхавира никая" называли три шри-ланкийских направления:
- Джетавания;
- Абхаягири-васин;
- Махавихара-васин,

о чем свидетельствует список Винитадевы 8 века:

http://www.safarmer.com/Indo-Eurasian/Nikaya.pdf#page=19

а также список из Варсагра-прччха-сутры 11 века:

http://www.safarmer.com/Indo-Eurasian/Nikaya.pdf#page=22

Об этом же свидетельствует цитирование Вимуттимагги как относящейся к "Арья-стхавира никае" в Санскрит-асанскрита-винишчае Дашабалашримитры, составленной в 12 веке.

Интересно, что к этому времени никакие другие школы, прежде всего - Сарвастивада и Самматия, уже не относятся в списках к "Арья-стхавира", и четко выделяются как самостоятельные школы.

Это можно объяснить тем, что сразу после расколов отколовшиеся группы некоторое время продолжали использовать завоевавшее авторитет название. А затем, получив поддержку, начинали подчеркивать свою самостоятельность и превосходство по отношению к другим группам, под новым названием.
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #22 : 20:23 01 Февраля 2017 »

Буддологи, реконструируя буддизм и историю буддизма, допустили ряд ошибок, и тем самым поспособствовали возникновению ряда распространенных мифов. Один из этих мифов - существование некой "Стхавиравады", от которой будто бы "ответвилась" позднее Тхеравада.

Владимир Кириллович Шохин пишет в своей книге "Школы индийской философии: Период формирования (IV в. до н.э. — II в. н.э.)":

Цитировать
Хотя мы пользуемся терминами стхавиравада и тхеравада и соответственно стхавиравадины и тхеравадины практически как синонимами, мы допускаем то разграничение в их употреблении, при котором учитывается, что о тхеравадинских доктринах и текстах корректнее говорить уже в связи с «ланкийской» стадией стхавиравадинского буддизма, а о стхавиравадинских — также и в связи с историей «учения старцев», еще предшествовавшей кодификации Палийского канона. Мнение ряда буддологов, по которому тхеравада — ответвление стхавиравады — следует считать некорректным.

и с ним трудно не согласиться. Термин "Стхавиравада" - изобретение некоего буддолога начала двадцатого века, полученное санскритизацией слова "Тхеравада". Ни в одном известном санскритском тексте это слово не встречается.

Этот вопрос подробно обсуждался на конференции "H-Buddhism":

https://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-Buddhism&month=0612&week=c&msg=siI5i%2BC/il8JXBV1DW/HFg&user=&pw=
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-buddhism&month=0612&week=d&msg=%2BfS4L2WmvhEPEuuaEQI9HQ&user=&pw=
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=h-buddhism&month=0612&week=d&msg=TxHxLAk5yHB7CL%2BzgCUvTQ&user=&pw=
https://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-Buddhism&month=0612&week=d&msg=cNpOwFTGhXD7KH7xfdq3Lw&user=&pw=
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #23 : 11:47 02 Февраля 2017 »

Эту легенду о Стхавираваде сейчас, судя по всему, подправляют, заменяя термин "Стхавиравада" на "Стхавира никая". Но опять получается аналогичная ошибка санскритизации. В то время, когда откололась Махасангхика, санскрита не существовало. Этот язык был создан и вошел в широкое обращение позже.

В то время продолжали общаться на языке, подобном пали, о чем свидетельствуют надписи:

http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=561.msg13473#msg13473

Поэтому "Арья-Стхавира никая" - это позднейшее, санскритизированное название школы Старейшин, которая сейчас называется Тхеравадой.
« Последнее редактирование: 20:24 02 Февраля 2017 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #24 : 11:58 03 Февраля 2017 »

Джеф Шац пишет:

The Dīpavaṃsa:

Цитировать
Seventeen are the schismatic sects, and there is one that is not schismatic; together with that which is not schismatic, they are eighteen in all. That of the Theravādins, which is even like a great banyan tree, is the most excellent: the complete teaching of the Conqueror, free from omissions or admissions.

The Kathāvatthu commentary:

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In that second century only two schools seceded from the Theravāda: the (1) Mahiṃsāsakas and the (2) Vajjiputtakas.

Now seceding from the Vajjiputtakas four other schools arose: the (3) Dhammuttariyas, the (4) Bhadrayānikas, the (5) Channāgarikas and the (6) Saṃmitiyas. Again, in that second century, seceding from the Mahiṃsāsakas, two schools arose: the (7) Sabbatthivādins and the (8) Dhammaguttikas. Then again, falling off from the Sabbatthivādins, arose the (9) Kassapikas. And the Kassapikas splitting up, the (10) Saṅkantikas came into existence. The Saṅkantikas splitting up, there arose the (11) Suttavādins. Thus, falling off from the Theravādins, arose these eleven schools. These together with the Theravādins were twelve.

Also, the 12th century northern Indian author Daśabalaśrīmitra refers to the Sthaviras and quotes extensively from the Vimuttimagga which he states is the "Āgama of the Ārya-Sthavira-nikāya." And the 19th century Tibetan author Jamgön Kongtrül also mentions the Sthaviras by name and, relying on Vinītadeva's Nikāyabhedopadeśasaṃgraha, also states that the "Jetavanīyas, Abhayagirikas, and Mahāvihārins are the [three] Sthaviras."

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12929&p=210285#p210285
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #25 : 11:18 08 Февраля 2017 »

Досточимый Аналайо тоже написал о термине "Тхеравада", но его статья пока что доступна только платно:

A Note on the Term Theravāda
Bhikkhu Analayo
Abstract

With the present article I study the trajectory of the term theravāda from its earliest occurrence in the Pāli canon to its present day usage as a designation of the form of Buddhism found in Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia. My presentation begins with the term theravāda in the Pāli discourses, followed by turning to the Pāli commentaries and chronicles. Next I examine the role of the Pāli canon in the Theravāda tradition and the conception of Theravāda as a monastic lineage, after which I discuss current usage and survey alternative terms.

https://journals.equinoxpub.com/index.php/BSR/article/view/19519
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #26 : 12:04 15 Февраля 2017 »

Джеф Шац пишет:

The Dīpavaṃsa:

Цитировать
Seventeen are the schismatic sects, and there is one that is not schismatic; together with that which is not schismatic, they are eighteen in all. That of the Theravādins, which is even like a great banyan tree, is the most excellent: the complete teaching of the Conqueror, free from omissions or admissions.

The Kathāvatthu commentary:

Цитировать
In that second century only two schools seceded from the Theravāda: the (1) Mahiṃsāsakas and the (2) Vajjiputtakas.

Now seceding from the Vajjiputtakas four other schools arose: the (3) Dhammuttariyas, the (4) Bhadrayānikas, the (5) Channāgarikas and the (6) Saṃmitiyas. Again, in that second century, seceding from the Mahiṃsāsakas, two schools arose: the (7) Sabbatthivādins and the (8) Dhammaguttikas. Then again, falling off from the Sabbatthivādins, arose the (9) Kassapikas. And the Kassapikas splitting up, the (10) Saṅkantikas came into existence. The Saṅkantikas splitting up, there arose the (11) Suttavādins. Thus, falling off from the Theravādins, arose these eleven schools. These together with the Theravādins were twelve.

Also, the 12th century northern Indian author Daśabalaśrīmitra refers to the Sthaviras and quotes extensively from the Vimuttimagga which he states is the "Āgama of the Ārya-Sthavira-nikāya." And the 19th century Tibetan author Jamgön Kongtrül also mentions the Sthaviras by name and, relying on Vinītadeva's Nikāyabhedopadeśasaṃgraha, also states that the "Jetavanīyas, Abhayagirikas, and Mahāvihārins are the [three] Sthaviras."

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=12929&p=210285#p210285

Руперт Гетин пишет:

The Kathāvatthu-aṭṭhakathā’s use of theravāda in the context of different schools of Buddhism seems in fact to be borrowed directly from the Dīpavaṃsa; as we shall see, this usage is also taken up by the Mahāvaṃsa. It is worth noting that even where theravāda is used in the earlier sources in the context of the ancient schools of Buddhism, it is not clear that we should think of precisely theravāda as the name. It is not impossible that the compounded thera itself should be taken as the name of the school, either as the plural ‘elders’, or as an adjective in the sense of ‘belonging to the elders’ and qualifying a vāda or nikāya; thera in the expression theravāda might simply be an alternative form of theriya, a term that appears to be used unambiguously in the Mahāvaṃsa to refer to one of the parties in the first division of the Saṅgha after the second council. I make this suggestion on the basis of the way the Kathāvatthu commentary talks of the eighteen ancient schools of Buddhism as ācariya-kula or ācariya-vāda; the list includes the Mahisāsakas and Vajjiputtakas, who are then referred to as the Mahisāsaka-vāda and Vajjiputtaka-vāda, suggesting that vāda is not so much part of the name of the school as simply a term for ‘school’ or ‘tradition’, just like nikāya, which is also used here. Also of note in this context is the way in which the subcommentary to the Kathāvatthu commentary explains the Dīpavaṃsa’s (V 52) syntactically rather awkward theravādānam uttamo:

Цитировать
Here thera is specified without any case ending; thera is in the sense of ‘that of the elders’. What does it refer to? The tradition (vāda). ‘That of the elders is the highest of traditions,’ is what is meant.

In other words, we can understand the expression theravāda in the Dīpavaṃsa and Mahāvaṃsa as equivalent to theriya-vāda and as meaning strictly ‘the tradition belonging to the elders’; Thera-vāda would simply be an alternative to Theriya-nikāya, although the latter expression seems not to be found in Pali literature. That there is some uncertainty about the use of the full expression theravāda as the proper name of a school is perhaps a minor point. Yet since the expected Sanskrit equivalent sthāviravāda seems not to be found in the ancient sources, it is a point still worth making as it suggests that the Pali sources may not be as out of line with other ancient Indian Buddhist sources in their use of terminology as might otherwise appear. For Buddhist Sanskrit sources, Edgerton cites simply Ārya-Sthāviras (paralleling Ārya-Saṃmatīyas and Ārya-Sarvāstivādas) and Ārya-Sthāvarīya-nikāya. All this suggests that strictly we should think of Pali Thera and Theriya as the proper names of a school, rather than Thera-vāda.

https://www.academia.edu/24142416/Was_Buddhaghosa_a_Therav%C4%81din_Buddhist_identity_in_the_Pali_commentaries_and_chronicles
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #27 : 13:41 18 Февраля 2017 »

Из Махавамсы:

A then known by the name Mahatissa, who had frequented the families of laymen, was expelled by the brotherhood from our monastery for this fault, the frequenting of lay-families. His disciple, the them who was known as Bahalamassutissa, went in anger to the Abhayagiri (vihãra) and abode there, forming a (separate) faction. And thenceforward these bhikkhus came no more to the Mahavihara: thus did the bhikkhus of the Abhayagiri (viliüra) secede from the Theravada. From the monks of the Abhayagiri -vihara those of the Dakkhina-vihara separated (afterwards); in this wise those bhikkhus (who had seceded) from the adherents of the Theravada were divided into two (groups).

http://lakdiva.org/mahavamsa/chap033.html

Предыстория из Махавансы:

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"THAT redaction of the true dhamma, which was arranged at the beginning by the great theras Mahäkassapa and others, is called that of the theras. One and united was the school of the theras in the first hundred years. But afterwards arose other schools of doctrine.' The heretical bhikkhus, subdued by the theras who had held the Second Council, in all ten thousand, founded the school which bears the name Mahasamghika.

From this arose the Gokulika and Ekavyoharika (schools). From the Gokulika arose the Parniatti sect and the Bahulika, from these the Cetiya sect. (Thus) there are six, with the Mahasamghika, and yet two more (groups) parted from the followers of the Thera-doctrine: the Mahimsasaka and the Vajjiputtaka bhikkhus. And there parted from them likewise the Dhammuttariya and the Bhadrayänika bhikkhus, the Chandagarika, the Sammiti and the Vajjiputtiya bhikkhus. From the Mahimsasaka bhikkhus two (groups) parted, the bhikkhus who held by the Sabbattha-school and the Dhammaguttika bhikkhus. From the Sabbattha sect arose the Kassapiya, from these arose the Samkantika bhikkhus, from these last the Sutta sect. These are twelve together with (those of) the Thera-doctrine; thereto are added the six schools named and these together are eighteen.

Thus in the second century arose seventeen schools, and other schools arose afterwards. The Hemavata and the Rajagiriya and likewise the Siddhatthaka, the first Seliya bhikkhus, the other Seliya, and the Vajiriya: these six separated (from the rest) in Jambudipa, the Dhammaruci and the Sagaliya separated (from the rest) in the island of Lanka."

http://lakdiva.org/mahavamsa/chap005.html
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #28 : 14:46 07 Октября 2017 »

What is Theravāda?

Only in two discourses, we meet the term of Theravāda. Viz, in the Ariyapariyesana and Saṃgārava Sutta of the Majjhima Nikāya. But, its commentary describes Theravāda as “theravādan’ti thirabhāvavādaṃ” (stable knowledge). Therefore, these two discourses have nothing to do with so called ‘Theravāda’.

At the same time, in early Buddhism, we come across the word ‘Therā’ which consists somewhat relationship with the so called word of ‘Theravāda’. In ‘Tatiya ovāda’ Sutta in Saṃyutta Nikāya, Mahākassapa there says to Buddha “now, it is very difficult to speak to the brethren. They are in a state makes it difficult to speak to them. They are intractable, they pay no deference to instruction” According to this answer of Buddha, ‘Therā’ means a sort of monk whose behavior is perfect in practices (Vinayānukūla). When we read this sutta more, we meet that thera are the monks who advise the newcomer to the community. And also in Udānapāḷi in Khuddaka Nikāya, we can see a sutta named ‘Therā’. There is mentioned about arahant theras such as Sāriputta, Mahāmoggallāna, Mahākassapa, Mahākaccāyana, Mahākoṭṭhita, Mahākappina, Mahācunda, Mahāanuruddha. In the track of this sutta, we can think of that word of ‘Thera’ has been used for arahant monks or experienced monks in order of blessed one. Further, the work of Theragāthapāḷi can also be taken along with this matter. The monks whom we meet in that work, are highly appreciated in Buddhist literature for their practices in both doctrine and discipline.

Now we should have a clear intention of the word of ‘Therā’. As it is mentioned in the discourses and works above, ‘Therā’ does mean monks who were highly appreciated, experienced and perfect in doctrine and discipline. Subsequently, their views should be Theravāda. It is fair enough to approach that kind of conclusion because first recital was held by those monks who were highly appreciated, experienced and perfect in doctrine and discipline rules. This is why the first council is named ‘Theriā’ in Mahāvaṃsa. In the first synod, Therās did not like to change any rule of discipline or abolish even minor rules, even though the Buddha had given permission to abolish. So then, there should be a close connection between the word of ‘Therā’ in early Buddhism and word of ‘Theravāda’.

In Mahāvaṃsa, first recital is named as ‘Theriā’, because the whole recital was held by five hundred arahant monks. The account of first council leads us to think that the term ‘Theravāda’ did not come to exist in the time of the first council. As a matter of fact, Theravāda came to exist just after the second council, meaning the pure school of Buddhism descending from elder such as Mahākassapa.

Before the second council, the community of Sangha was only a one group. But, after the second council it was divided into two as Theravāda and Mahāsaṃghika. Those who upheld what was recited in the first two councils were Theravādins while remaining monks were Mahāsaṃghika.

In the track of the above details, Theravāda is a school, derived in the second council. ‘Therā’ does mean ‘elders’ and ‘Vāda’ does mean ‘views’. Then Theravāda generally means ‘views of elders’. Now, let us know why Theravādins assumed their name of Theravāda. It is quite explicit that Theravādins in the second council were continuing view of elders who were present in the first council. They clearly upheld what was recited in the first council and elders’ views on the Buddha’s doctrine. This should be why they assumed the term of Theravāda (views of elders) themselves.

Theravāda should also mean what was recited in first two councils and elders’ views. According to the Vinayatīka (Sāratthadīpanītīka), all Paḷi recited in two councils are said to be Theravāda. And, views or debates of elder monks, led by Mahākassapa thera, are also said to be Theravāda. Then, there may be a question what the views or debates of those elders are. We know about the diplomacy concerning to the minor precepts (Khuddānukuddakasikkhāpadāni) applied by those elder monks, led by Mahākassapa thera in the first synod. In that way, they came to an agreements about the orthodox doctrine and discipline. These are the views and debates of elders. Do only recited doctrine-discipline and elders views or debates mean Theravāda? Not really, Theravāda by now means vast literature and tradition. Theravāda school, assuming their name, officially began in the second council with the split. It has been growing ever since. It is said that there had been eighteen schools by the time of the third council. Those various schools came to exist rendering their own views. While Theravādins protected what they preserved for a long time from the first synod, they fed the view of elders, discarding heterodox of other schools. Consequently, the content of Theravāda literature began to become vast adding more works such as works of Abhidhamma Piṭaka, Commentaries. Vinayaṭṭhakathā , Thūpavaṃsa , Vimativinodanītīkā and sāsanawaṃsa give enough evidence to prove this matter.

Nowadays, in accordance with modern scholars, those doctrine and discipline before the second council are considered to be the early Buddhism and the rest is considered as Theravāda. But this distinction comes to exist when we are talking on early Buddhism and Theravāda. But, as a whole Theravāda means what has been descending from the first synod up to the present era. Especially, Mahāvihāra monks of Ceylon and other monks in the rest Theravādin countries such as Burma, Thailand, Laos made the Theravāda literature vast by composing commentaries, sub commentaries, post canonical works, chronicles and grammar books. It is possible to be a mistrust here how the later compiled thing and early Buddhism can be considered in the same stage. The answer is given in Sumaṃgalaviḷāsinī mentioning four types of matter of Dhamma and Vinaya which refers to way of something can be taken onto stage of the whole Theravāda with the early Buddhism. It is said that elderly monks held three synods in accordance with these four matters and should not be taken anything other than these four matters.

- Sutta- suttas should not be discarded because discarding of suttas mean discarding of Buddha. If there are later compiled suttas such as suttas in Khuddhaka Nikāya, those suttas should be compared with the suttas of the early Buddhism.
- Suttānuloma- those things that are compliant with Suttas. Post canonical works can be included into this category
- Ācariyavāda- Aṭṭhakathās or commentaries should also be taken if those are compared with suttas.
- Attanomati- Attanomathi does mean logically thought notions by each.

Now it should be quite clear what the Theravāda is, how it came to exist, developed and how much it consists as a literature.

https://www.facebook.com/URV680/photos/a.478151432367190.1073741828.478087075706959/504947523020914/?type=3&theater
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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #29 : 14:50 07 Октября 2017 »

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Re: Что такое Тхеравада
« Ответ #30 : 12:47 12 Ноября 2018 »

По поводу тхеравадинской Винаи Акира Хиракава пишет:

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... тхеравадинская Виная не упоминает ступы, несмотря на то, что они находились в пределах границ монастырей Тхеравады в течении столетий. Очевидно, что монахи Тхеравады начали выполнять ритуалы почитания ступ уже после того, как была составлена Виная. В противоположность этому, Винаи Сарвастивадинов и Махасангхиков (T 1435 и 1425) содержат упоминание об изображениях Будды, что указывает на то, что эти две Винаи вероятно были составлены позднее, чем палийская Виная. Таким образом некоторые Винаи, составленные уже после того, как монахи начали поклоняться ступам, включают дискуссии о почитании ступ.

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