Перевод "nibbāna"

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Перевод "nibbāna"
« : 22:59 02 Октября 2012 »

В этимологическом смысле это слово трактуется комментаторами как прекращение (горячки) страсти (nis+vana), и даже имеет значение "выздоровление".

Статья досточтимого Тханиссаро "Глагол для слова "нирвана"":

http://dhamma.ru/lib/authors/thanissaro/nirvanaverb.html
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #1 : 23:00 02 Октября 2012 »

Из введения Бхиккху Бодхи к его переводу Самьютта Никаи:

NIBBĀNA, PARINIBBĀNA

As is well known, nibbāna literally means the extinction of a fire. In popular works on Buddhism, nibbāna plain and simple is often taken to signify Nibbāna as experienced in life, parinibbāna Nibbāna attained at death. This is a misinterpretation. Long ago E.J. Thomas pointed out (possibly on the basis of a suggestion by E. Kuhn) that the prefix pari- converts a verb from the expression of a state into the expression of the achievement of an action, so that the corresponding noun nibbāna becomes the state of release, parinibbāna the attaining of that state. [History of Buddhist Thought, p. 121, n. 4.] The distinction does not really work very well for the verb, as we find both parinibbāyati and nibbāyati used to designate the act of attaining release, but it appears to be fairly tenable in regard to the nouns. (In verse, however, we do sometimes find nibbāna used to denote the event, for example in the line pajjotass’ eva nibbānaṃ at v. 612c.) Words related to both nibbāna and parinibbāna designate both the attaining of release during life through the experience of full enlightenment, and the attaining of final release from conditioned existence through the breakup of the physical body of death. Thus, for instance, the verb parinibbāyati is commonly used to describe how a bhikkhu achieves release while alive (e.g., at II 82,20; III 54,3; IV 23,8–9, etc.) and also to indicate the passing away of the Buddha or an arahant (e.g., at I 158,23; V 161,25).

The past participle forms, nibbuta and parinibbuta, are from a different verbal root than the nouns nibbāna and parinibbāna. The former is from nir + vṛ, the latter from nir + vā. The noun appropriate to the participles is nibbuti, which occasionally occurs in the texts as a synonym for nibbāna but with a function that is more evocative (of tranquillity, complete rest, utter peace) than systematic. (It seems no prefixed noun parinibbuti is attested to in Pāli.) At an early time the two verb forms were conflated, so that the participle parinibbuta became the standard adjective used to denote one who has undergone parinibbāna. Like the verb, the participle is used in apposition to both the living Buddha or arahant (I 1,21, 187,8) and the deceased one (I 122,13, 158,24). Possibly, however, parinibbuta is used in relation to the living arahant only in verse, while in prose its technical use is confined to one who has expired. In sutta usage, even when the noun parinibbāna denotes the passing away of an arahant (particularly of the Buddha), it does not mean “Nibbāna after death.” It is, rather, the event of passing away undergone by one who has already attained Nibbāna during life.

The suttas distinguish between two elements of Nibbāna: the Nibbāna element with residue (sa-upādisesa-nibbānadhātu) and the Nibbāna element without residue (anupādisesanibbānadhātu )—the residue (upādisesa) being the compound of the five aggregates produced by prior craving and kamma (It 38–39). The former is the extinction of lust, hatred, and delusion attained by the arahant while alive; the latter is the remainderless cessation of all conditioned existence that occurs with the arahant’s death. In the commentaries the two elements of Nibbāna are respectively called kilesaparinibbāna, the quenching of defilements at the attainment of arahantship, and khandhaparinibbāna , the quenching of the continuum of aggregates with the arahant’s demise. Though the commentaries treat the two Nibbāna elements and the two kinds of parinibbāna as interchangeable and synonymous, in sutta usage it may be preferable to see the two kinds of parinibbāna as the events which give access to the two corresponding Nibbāna elements. Parinibbāna, then, is the act of quenching; nibbāna, the state of quenchedness.

To explain the philology of a term is not to settle the question of its interpretation. What exactly is to be made of the various explanations of Nibbāna given in the Nikāyas has been a subject of debate since the early days of Buddhism, with the ground divided between those who regard it as the mere extinction of defilements and cessation of existence and those who understand it as a transcendental (lokuttara) ontological reality. In SN some suttas explain Nibbāna as the destruction of lust, hatred, and delusion, which emphasizes the experiential psychological dimension; elsewhere it is called the unconditioned, which seems to place the stress on ontological transcendence. The Theravāda commentators regard Nibbāna as an unconditioned element. [This is clearly maintained in the debate on Nibbāna recorded at Vism 507–9 (Ppn 16:67–74). See too the long extract from the Paramatthamañjūsā, Dhammapāla’s commentary on Vism, translated by Ñāṇamoli at Ppn pp. 825–26, n. 18.] They hold that when Nibbāna is called the destruction of the defilements (of lust, hatred, and delusion, etc.) and the cessation of the five aggregates, this requires interpretation. Nibbāna itself, as an existent, is unborn, unmade, unbecome, unconditioned (see Ud 80–81). It is in dependence on this element (taṃ āgamma), by arriving at it, that there takes place the destruction of the defilements and release from conditioned existence. Nibbāna itself, however, is not reducible to these two events, which are, in their actual occurrence, conditioned events happening in time. On this interpretation, the two Nibbāna elements are seen as stages in the full actualization of the unconditioned Nibbāna, not simply as two discrete events.

In the present work I leave nibbāna untranslated, for the term is too rich in evocative meaning and too defiant of conceptual specification to be satisfactorily captured by any proposed English equivalent. I translate parinibbāna as “final Nibbāna,” since the noun form usually means the passing away of an arahant (or the Buddha), final release from conditioned existence; sometimes, however, its meaning is ambiguous, as in the statement “the Dhamma [is] taught by the Blessed One for the sake of final Nibbāna without clinging (anupādāparinibbānatthaṃ)” (IV 48,78), which can mean either Nibbāna during life or the full cessation of existence.

The verb parinibbāyati perhaps could have been incorporated into English with “nibbanize,” which would be truest to the Pāli, but this would be too much at variance with current conventions. Thus when the verb refers to the demise of the Buddha or an arahant, I render it “attains final Nibbāna,” but when it designates the extinguishing of defilements by one who attains enlightenment, I render it simply “attains Nibbāna.” We also find a personal noun form, parinibbāyī, which I render “an attainer of Nibbāna,” as it can be construed in either sense. In prose the past participle parinibbuta, used as a doctrinal term, always occurs with reference to a deceased arahant and so it is translated “has attained final Nibbāna.” In verse, it can take on either meaning; when it describes a living arahant (or the Buddha) I translate it more freely as “fully quenched.” The unprefixed form nibbuta does not always carry the same technical implications as parinibbuta, but can mean simply “peaceful, satisfied, at ease,” without necessarily establishing that the one so described has attained Nibbāna. [For a play on the two senses of nibbuta, see the Bodhisatta’s reflections before his great renunciation at Ja I 60–61.] At I 24,11 and II 279,8 it has this implication; at I 236,21 it seems to mean simply peaceful; at III 43, in the compound tadaṅganibbuta, it definitely does not imply Nibbāna, for the point there is that the monk has only approximated to the real attainment of the goal. Cognates of parinibbāna appear in colloquial speech with a nondoctrinal sense; for example, both parinibbāyati and parinibbuta are used to describe the taming of a horse (at MN I 446,8–10). But even here they seem to be used with a “loaded meaning,” since the horse simile is introduced to draw a comparison with a monk who attains arahantship.
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #2 : 04:31 18 Октября 2012 »

Разъяснение понятия ниббана как действительной реальности, а не просто как прекращения, от досточтимого Бхиккху Бодхи:

Nibbana - By Bikkhu Bodhi
    Regarding the nature of Nibbana, the question is often asked: Does Nibbana signify only extinction of the defilements and liberation from samsara or does it signify some reality existing in itself? Nibbana is not only the destruction of defilements and the end of samsara but a reality transcendent to the entire world of mundane experience, a reality transcendent to all the realms of phenomenal existence.
    The Buddha refers to Nibbana as a 'dhamma'. For example, he says "of all dhammas, conditioned or unconditioned, the most excellent dhamma, the supreme dhamma is, Nibbana". 'Dhamma' signifies actual realities, the existing realities as opposed to conceptual things. Dhammas are of two types, conditioned and unconditioned. A conditioned dhamma is an actuality which has come into being through causes or conditions, something which arises through the workings of various conditions. The conditioned dhammas are the five aggregates: material form, feeling, perception, mental formations and consciousness. The conditioned dhammas, do not remain static. They go through a ceaseless process of becoming. They arise, undergo transformation and fall away due to its conditionality.
    However, the unconditioned dhamma is not produced by causes and conditions. It has the opposite characteristics from the conditioned: it has no arising, no falling away and it undergoes no transformation. Nevertheless, it is an actuality, and the Buddha refers to Nibbana as an unconditioned Dhamma.
    The Buddha also refers to Nibbana as an 'ayatana'. This means realm, plane or sphere. It is a sphere where there is nothing at all that correspond to our mundane experience, and therefore it has to be described by way of negations as the negation of all the limited and determinate qualities of conditioned things.
    The Buddha also refers to Nibbana as a, 'Dhatu' an element, the 'deathless element'. He compares the element of Nibbana to an ocean. He says that just as the great ocean remains at the same level no matter how much water pours into it from the rivers, without increase or decrease, so the Nibbana element remains the same, no matter whether many or few people attain Nibbana.
    He also speaks of Nibbana as something that can be experienced by the body, an experience that is so vivid, so powerful, that it can be described as "touching the deathless element with one's own body."
    The Buddha also refers to Nibbana as a 'state' ('pada') as 'amatapada' - the deathless state - or accutapada, the imperishable state.
    Another word used by the Buddha to refer to Nibbana is 'Sacca', which means 'truth', an existing reality. This refers to Nibbana as the truth, a reality that the Noble ones have known through direct experience.
    So all these terms, considered as a whole, clearly establish that Nibbana is an actual reality and not the mere destruction of defilements or the cessation of existence. Nibbana is unconditioned, without any origination and is timeless.
« Последнее редактирование: 19:27 22 Августа 2019 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #3 : 04:43 18 Октября 2012 »

Некоторые возражения против подобного понимания со стороны досточтимого Аджана Брахмали:

community.dhammaloka.org.au

В ответ на вопрос о лекции досточтимого Бодхи о ниббане:

Dear Dania,

    I feel a bit awkward criticizing Ven. Bodhi. I consider him as one of my main teachers of the Dhamma. For a long time I have been reading his writings and much of my comprehension of the Dhamma is due to his excellent translations and commentaries. I have a great sense of gratitude towards him and much respect. At the same time, I suppose there comes a time when a student has gained enough understanding to stand on his own two legs. So perhaps in this case it would not be wrong to present my own understanding of this issue.
    It seems to me that the main mistake Ven. Bodhi makes here is to give a direct answer to a question that is based on a misunderstanding. There is an exchange between Ven. Sāriputta and Ven. Mahākotthita in the Anguttara Nikaya (AN4:173) which makes this very point:

Цитировать
(1)"Friend, with the remainderless fading away and cessation of the six bases for contact [that is, the death of an arahant], is there anything else?"
"Do not say so, friend."
(2) "With the remainderless fading away and cessation of the six bases for contact, is there nothing else?"
"Do not say so, friend."

(1) "Friend, if one says: ‘With the remainderless fading away and cessation of the six bases for contact, there is something else,' one proliferates about that which is without proliferation [i.e. final Nibbāna].
(2) If one says: 'Friend, with the remainderless fading away and cessation of the six bases for contact, there is nothing else,' one proliferates about that which is without proliferation.

    So these very questions are just proliferations; they are misconceived. The Dhamma is not about attaining or not attaining an existing reality. It’s about ending suffering. The reason why anyone is concerned about what happens when the arahant dies is because of their sense of self. The sense of self makes us perceive the death of an arahant either as annihilation or some sort of eternal existence. Once the false sense of self is removed, one no longer perceives the death of an arahant in either of these ways, and the concern about what happens to them after death just falls away. I feel Ven. Bodhi should have pointed this out rather than try to answer the question. That would have been much more useful for the inquirer’s understanding of the Dhamma.
    Having said this, I also do not find Ven. Bodhi’s arguments persuasive. Before I consider Ven. Bodhi’s individual points, I should point out a general danger in arguing that Nibbāna is “an existing reality”. It is impossible to conceive of a reality beyond the six senses, at least for non-ariyans. For this reason, any idea of Nibbāna as an existing reality will by default be understood in terms of the eternal continuation of one or more of the five khandhas. The result of this will often be attachment to a refined form of the five khandhas, in particular refined states of samādhi, and taking this as Nibbāna. So the best thing to do is to put this question aside and instead practice the path until one penetrates non-self. Only when one sees this will one understand that the very question was misconceived.
    Now let me try to reply to some of Ven. Bodhi's points.

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The Buddha refers to Nibbana as a 'dhamma'. For example, he says "of all dhammas, conditioned or unconditioned, the most excellent dhamma, the supreme dhamma is, Nibbana". 'Dhamma' signifies actual realities, the existing realities as opposed to conceptual things.

    The full quote that Ven. Bodhi is referring to reads:

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To whatever extent there are phenomena conditioned or unconditioned, dispassion is declared the foremost among them, that is, the crushing of pride, the removal of thirst, the uprooting of attachment, the termination of the round, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbāna. (AN4:34)

    Here, as is common in the suttas, Nibbāna is used synonymously with nirodha. Nirodha means “cessation”, the very opposite of a “reality existing in itself”. To fit in with this, Nibbāna must simply refer to “extinguishment”, which is its literal meaning, rather than to an existing reality.

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However, the unconditioned dhamma is not produced by causes and conditions.

    “Extinguishment” is unconditioned because it is not dependent on conditions. That is, it is “free from the conditioned”, which is probably a more appropriate translation of asankhata than “unconditiooned”. Once Nibbāna is achieved, it is irreversible, and thus asankhata.

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The Buddha also refers to Nibbana as an 'ayatana'. This means realm, plane or sphere.

    Āyatana often does refer to a “realm, plane or sphere”, but not always. For example at AN9:46, saññāvedayitanirodha, “the cessation of perception and feeling” (which is the cessation of the mind), is called an āyatana. Here the word āyatana simply seems to point to the fact that such cessation is possible. In this context āyatana cannot refer to a “realm”; rather it refers to the ending of all realms. Again, when Nibbāna is called an āyatana (which actually is very rare; the most celebrated occurrence being Ud 8:1), it is probably used in the same way as nirodhāyatana, and it is perhaps best translated as “the principle of extinguishment“.

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The Buddha also refers to Nibbana as a 'dhatu,' an element, the 'deathless element' (amata-dhatu).

    The word dhātu, too, is used in a variety of contexts, and the translation “element” is often not suitable. These contexts include saññāvedayitanirodhadhātu (“the dhātu of the cessation of perception and feeling”), avijjādhātu (“the dhātu of ignorance”), nirodhadhātu (“the dhātu of cessation”) and then there is the passage jātipaccayā bhikkhave jarāmaranaṃ uppādā vā Tathāgatānaṃ anuppādā vā Tathāgatānaṃ ṭhitā va sā dhātu (“monks, from the condition of birth, there is old age and death; whether Tathāgatas arise or not, that dhātu persists”) (SN12:20). In all these cases “principle” might be the most suitable translation of dhātu. Given this wide usage of the word dhātu, it is not given that nibbānadhātu must refer to something existing. Rather, “the principle of extinguishment” might again be a suitable translation.

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He also speaks of Nibbana as something that can be experienced by the body, an experience that is so vivid, so powerful, that it can be described as "touching the deathless element with one's own body”.

    In my understanding of the sutta idiom, this expression (“experienced with the body”; kāyena phusati) means “direct experience”, i.e. in contrast to inferential understanding. Even the attainment of full cessation (saññāvedayitanirodha) is said to be experienced “with the body”, that is, “directly” (AN4:87). In this case, presumably, the meaning is that you experience the process of entering and emerging from cessation. The meaning of directly experiencing the amatadhātu, “the death-free principle”, should probably be understood in the same way.

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The Buddha also refers to Nibbana as a 'state' (pada), as 'amatapada' - the deathless state - or ‘accutapada’, the imperishable state.

    In the main Nikāyas, this expression only occurs in verse, once in the Dhammapada and once in the Theragāthā. It is very difficult to draw any conclusion on the basis of such rare usage, but I would suggest that pada here is used like dhātu is used above, and that it therefore should be understood in the same way.

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Another word used by the Buddha to refer to Nibbana is 'sacca', which means 'truth', an existing reality.

    Again, there is also nirodha-sacca, which is the third noble truth, which is Nibbāna.
    In sum, Nibbāna is very closely related to nirodha, and they are frequently used as synonyms. There is little indication that they should be understood as referring to different realities. On the contrary, when they are respectively translated as “extinguishment” and “cessation”, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that they must be referring to the same thing.
    I think one of the main reasons people tend to see Nibbāna as a “state” is that most translations into English leave Nibbāna untranslated. I believe this is a mistake. The word Nibbāna in itself is meaningless to English speakers, and thus they will tend to read almost anything into it, in particular the idea of an existing “something”. Once you translate Nibbāna with “extinguishment”, it becomes much more difficult to read inappropriate ideas into it. Nobody, as far I know, understands nirodha, “cessation”, as some kind of “state”. In the same way, if we read “extinguishment” rather than Nibbāna in the English translations, I believe we would be much less likely to regard it as a “state”.

With metta.
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #4 : 09:13 18 Октября 2012 »

Цитировать
To whatever extent there are phenomena conditioned or unconditioned, dispassion is declared the foremost among them, that is, the crushing of pride, the removal of thirst, the uprooting of attachment, the termination of the round, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbāna. (AN4:34)

    Here, as is common in the suttas, Nibbāna is used synonymously with nirodha.

Это часто встречающаяся ошибка - истолковывать стоящие рядом слова как синонимы.

Последовательность "вирага, ниродха, ниббана" - это часть "семи распознаваний":
http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=441.0
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14143#p208505

Отождествление Ниббаны с Ниродхой - одна из основных доктрин школы Брахмавамсо, к которой принадлежит и Брахмали.
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #5 : 09:16 18 Октября 2012 »

Да, я обратил внимание, что они принадлежат одной и той же вихаре в Австралии.
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #6 : 01:36 19 Октября 2012 »

Приведу выдержку о ниббане из упомянутой сутты на пали:

AN 4.34 - Aggappasāda sutta
‘‘Yāvatā, bhikkhave, dhammā saṅkhatā vā asaṅkhatā vā, virāgo tesaṃ aggamakkhāyati, yadidaṃ madanimmadano pipāsavinayo ālayasamugghāto vaṭṭupacchedo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṃ.

Последовательность "вирага, ниродха, ниббана" - это часть "семи распознаваний":
http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=441.0
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=14143#p208505

К сожалению, такой последовательности в этих темах не находится.

Это часто встречающаяся ошибка - истолковывать стоящие рядом слова как синонимы.
Пожалуй, считать эти слова синонимами было бы действительно странно, и я не думаю, что кто-то из знатоков учения действительно так поступает.
Другое дело, считать ли, что за списком подобных наименований стоит что-то одно, или это названия разных "действительностей"  - это другой вопрос.
Насколько я понимаю мысль дост. Брахмали, он считает, что здесь эти именования применяются синонимично в отношении конечной цели буддийской практики.

Можно предположить, что его мнение основано на комментарии к сутте "Аггаппасада сутта":
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Virāgotiādīni nibbānasseva nāmāni. Tañhi āgamma sabbakilesā virajjanti, sabbe rāgamadādayo madā nimmadā honti, abhāvaṃ gacchanti, sabbā pipāsā vinayaṃ upenti, sabbe ālayā samugghātaṃ gacchanti, vaṭṭāni upacchijjanti, taṇhā khīyanti, vaṭṭadukkhā nirujjhanti, sabbe pariḷāhā nibbāyanti.
Где как раз и сказано, что вирага и пр. - это наименования для ниббаны: nibbānasseva nāmāni. Далее разъясняются нюансы, связанные с каждым наименованием.
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #7 : 04:33 19 Октября 2012 »

К сожалению, такой последовательности в этих темах не находится.

В этих темах описывается последовательность "семи распознаваний", завершающими из которых являются вирага-сання и ниродха-сання, а за ними, как описано в упомянутой Чхачхакка сутте, следует Ниббана.

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Пожалуй, считать эти слова синонимами было бы действительно странно, и я не думаю, что кто-то из знатоков учения действительно так поступает.

Однако Брахмавамсо связывает "ниродха-самапатти" и Ниббану в одно целое в своей книге  "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond", и вместе с тем смешивает воедино "ниродху" и "ниродха-самапатти":

"Within the perception of neither perception nor nonperception lies the end of all perception, the cessation of all that is felt or perceived, nibbāna. If the minds attends to this, the mind stops. When the mind starts again, one gains the attainment of arahant or anāgāmī. These are the only possiblities." - p.171

В других работах он пишет:

"The Buddha would also very often equate Nibbāna and nirodha, cessation. Even though it is not true Nibbāna, it is close. Why is it close? It is close because a lot of cessation has already occurred. In these very refined states a lot has ceased, by ceasing it has ended, disappeared, finished. That is why it is very close to Nibbāna."

"This cessation is the ending of everything. Sometimes people get afraid. It is bleak, thinking of Nibbāna as cessation, ending! Whether we like it or not, that’s just what happens. We don’t have any say in it."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/38209909/Ajahn-Brahm-Simply-This-Moment

"Very often the Buddha would equate Nibbana and nirodha, cessation, and here in these states a lot has ceased, by ceasing it has ended, disappeared, finished."

http://www.metta.lk/english/ways-jhana.htm

"Nirodha-samāpatti, the end of all perception and feelings. Nibbāna here and now. To actually see the ‘doer’ and the ‘knower’ in the mind as just arising and falling, as insubstantial, instead of entities which exist by themselves."

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books7/Ajahn_Brahmavamso_Asubha_Practice.pdf

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Насколько я понимаю мысль дост. Брахмали, он считает, что здесь эти именования применяются синонимично в отношении конечной цели буддийской практики.

Он ясно пишет о том, что эти именования обозначают одно и то же:

"In sum, Nibbāna is very closely related to nirodha, and they are frequently used as synonyms. There is little indication that they should be understood as referring to different realities. On the contrary, when they are respectively translated as “extinguishment” and “cessation”, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that they must be referring to the same thing."

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Можно предположить, что его мнение основано на комментарии к сутте "Аггаппасада сутта"

В школе Брахмавамсо практически не изучают палийских комментариев. Мнение Брахмали явно отзеркаливает высказывания Брахмавамсо.
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #8 : 09:25 19 Октября 2012 »

Спасибо за разъяснения.

В своей работе "A critical analysis of the jhanas" дост. Хенепола Гунаратана пишет:
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The path of stream-entry is followed by another occasion of supramundane experience called the fruit of stream entry (sotāpatti-phala). Fruition follows immediately upon the path, succeding it without a gap. It occurs as the result of the path, sharing its object, nibbāna, and its world-transcending character.

То есть получается, что ниббана выступает объектом для каждого из четырех типов благородных достижений, начиная с пути и плода вступления в поток? При этом достижения отличаются количеством остающихся оков.
Иными словами, опыт ниббаны, как актуальной действительности, возможен и тем, кто не достигал нироха-самапатти?

Верно ли, что ниродха-самапатти - это тоже, что и сання-ведаита-ниродха?
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Sattadhātusutta
Yāyaṃ, bhikkhu, saññāvedayitanirodhadhātu – ayaṃ dhātu nirodhasamāpatti pattabbā
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #9 : 11:02 19 Октября 2012 »

То есть получается, что ниббана выступает объектом для каждого из четырех типов благородных достижений, начиная с пути и плода вступления в поток? При этом достижения отличаются количеством остающихся оков.

Досточтимый Гунаратана пишет о комментаторской модели:
http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=591.msg5013#msg5013

В ней, на мой взгляд, есть доля истины, но все же она слишком упрощена.

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Иными словами, опыт ниббаны, как актуальной действительности, возможен и тем, кто не достигал нироха-самапатти?

Конечно. Ниродха-самапатти, как этап пути, достигается лишь при варианте прохождения через "бестелесные достижения" (арупа-самапатти). Освобождающиеся с помощью мудрости достигают Ниббаны даже порой только с первой джханой.

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Верно ли, что ниродха-самапатти - это тоже, что и сання-ведаита-ниродха?

Sattadhātusutta
Yāyaṃ, bhikkhu, saññāvedayitanirodhadhātu – ayaṃ dhātu nirodhasamāpatti pattabbā

Да.
http://dhamma.ru/forum/index.php?topic=185.0
« Последнее редактирование: 11:21 19 Октября 2012 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #10 : 08:09 06 Марта 2013 »

Джеф Шац пишет:

Compare the underlined portion of AN 9.37:

"Sister, the concentration that does not lean forward and does not bend back, and that is not reigned in and checked by forcefully suppressing [the defilements] -- by being liberated, it is steady; by being steady, it is content; by being content, one is not agitated. The Blessed One said this concentration has final knowledge as its fruit."

With the underlined portion from SN 22.53, 54, & 55:

"When that consciousness is unestablished, not coming to growth, nongenerative, it is liberated. By being liberated, it is steady; by being steady, it is content; by being content, he is not agitated. Being unagitated, he personally attains nibbāna. He understands: 'Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.'"

It seems that we are dealing with a very specific, liberational samādhi in both cases. Specifically with regard to the content of AN 9.37, the likely samādhi is explained in AN 10.6:

    "Bhante, could a bhikkhu obtain such a state of concentration that (1) he would not be percipient of earth in relation to earth; (2) of water in relation to water; (3) of fire in relation to fire; (4) of air in relation to air; (5) of the base of infinity of space in relation to the base of the infinity of space; (6) of the base of infinity of consciousness in relation to the base of the infinity of consciousness; (7) of the base of nothingness in relation to the base of nothingness; (8 ) of the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception in relation to the base of  neither-perception-nor-non-perception; (9) of this world in relation to this world; (10) of the other world in relation to the other world, but he would still be percipient?"

    "He could, Ānanda."

    "But how, Bhante, could he obtain such a state of concentration?"

    "Here, Ānanda, a bhikkhu is percipient thus: 'This is peaceful, this is sublime, that is, the stilling of all activities, the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbāna.' It is in this way, Ānanda, that a bhikkhu could obtain such a state of concentration...."

This samādhi is probably equivalent to the perception of "bhavanirodho nibbāna" described in the next sutta, AN 10.7, and the perception of cessation (nirodhasaññā) described in AN 10.60, and in this way is related to the aññāphala samādhi of AN 9.37.

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=16407&p=234089#p234089
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #11 : 16:55 27 Декабря 2015 »

Руперт Гетин пишет в своей книге "Основы буддизма":

The cessation of suffering: nirvāṇa

In the normal course of events our quest for happiness leads us to attempt to satisfy our desires — whatever they be. But in so doing we become attached to things that are unreliable, unstable, changing, and impermanent. As long as there is attachment to things that are unstable, unreliable, changing, and impermanent there will be suffering — when they change, when they cease to be what we want them to be. Try as we might to find something in the world that is permanent and stable, which we can hold on to and thereby find lasting happiness, we must always fail. The Buddhist solution is as radical as it is simple: let go, let go of everything. If craving is the cause of suffering, then the cessation of suffering will surely follow from 'the complete fading away and ceasing of that very craving': its abandoning, relinquishing, releasing, letting go. The cessation of craving is, then, the goal of the Buddhist path, and equivalent to the cessation of suffering, the highest happiness, nirvāṇa (Pali nibbāna).

Nirvāṇa is a difficult concept, but certain things about the traditional Buddhist understanding of nirvana are quite clear. Some of the confusion surrounding the concept arises, I think, from a failure to distinguish different dimensions of the use of the term nirvāṇa in Buddhist literature. I want here to discuss nirvana in terms of three things: (1) nirvana as, in some sense, a particular event (what happens at the moment of awakening), (2) nirvana as, in some sense, the content of an experience (what the mind knows at the moment of awakening), and (3) nirvana as, in some sense, the state or condition enjoyed by buddhas and arhats after death. Let us examine this more closely.

Literally nirvāṇa means 'blowing out' or 'extinguishing', although Buddhist commentarial writings, by a play on words, like to explain it as 'the absence of craving'. But where English translations of Buddhist texts have 'he attains nirvana/parinirvana', the more characteristic Pali or Sanskrit idiom is a simple verb: 'he or she nirvana-s' or more often 'he or she parinirvana-s' (parinibbāyati). What the Pali and Sanskrit expression primarily indicates is the event or process of the extinction of the 'fires' of greed, aversion, and delusion. At the moment the Buddha understood suffering, its arising, its cessation, and the path leading to its cessation, these fires were extinguished. This process is the same for all who reach awakening, and the early texts term it either nirvana or parinirvana, the complete 'blowing out' or 'extinguishing' of the 'fires' of greed, aversion, and delusion. This is not a 'thing' but an event or experience.

After a being has, as it were, 'nirvāṇa-ed', the defilements of greed, hatred, and delusion no longer arise in his or her mind, since they have been thoroughly rooted out (to switch to another metaphor also current in the tradition). Yet like the Buddha, any person who attains nirvana does not remain thereafter forever absorbed in some transcendental state of mind. On the contrary he or she continues to live in the world; he or she continues to think, speak, and act as other people do — with the difference that all his or her thoughts, words, and deeds are completely free of the motivations of greed, aversion, and delusion, and motivated instead entirely by generosity, friendliness, and wisdom. This condition of having extinguished the defilements can be termed 'nirvana with the remainder [of life]' (sopadhiśeṣa-nirvāṇa/sa-upādisesa-nibbāna): the nirvana that comes from ending the occurrence of the defilements (kleśa/kilesa) of the mind; what the Pali commentaries call for short kilesa-parinibbāna. This is what the Buddha achieved on the night of his awakening.

Eventually 'the remainder of life' will be exhausted and, like all beings, such a person must die. But unlike other beings, who have not experienced 'nirvana', he or she will not be reborn into some new life, the physical and mental constituents of being will not come together in some new existence, there will be no new being or person. Instead of being reborn, the person 'parinirvana-s', meaning in this context that the five aggregates of physical and mental phenomena that constitute a being cease to occur. This is the condition of 'nirvāṇa without remainder [of life]' (nir-upadhiśeṣa-nirvāṇa/an-upadisesa-nibbāna): nirvāṇa that comes from ending the occurrence of the aggregates (skandha/khandha) of physical and mental phenomena that constitute a being; or, for short, khandha-parinibbāna. Modern Buddhist usage tends to restrict 'nirvāṇa' to the awakening experience and reserve 'parinirvāṇa' for the death experience.

So far we have considered nirvāṇa from the perspective of a particular experience which has far-reaching and quite specific effects. This is the more straightforward aspect of the Buddhist tradition's understanding of nirvāṇa. There is, however, a further dimension to the tradition's treatment and understanding of nirvana. What precisely does the mind experience at the moment when the fires of greed, hatred and delusion are finally extinguished? At the close of one of the works of the Pali canon entitled Udāna there are recorded several often quoted 'inspired utterances' (udāna) said to have been made by the Buddha concerning nirvana. Here is the first:

There is, monks, a domain where there is no earth, no water, no fire, no wind, no sphere of infinite space, no sphere of nothingness, no sphere of infinite consciousness, no sphere of neither awareness nor non-awareness; there is not this world, there is not another world, there is no sun or moon. I do not call this coming or going, nor standing, nor dying, nor being reborn; it is without support, without occurrence, without object. Just this is the end of suffering.

This passage refers to the four elements that constitute the physical world and also what the Buddhist tradition sees as the most subtle forms of consciousness possible, and suggests that there is a 'domain' or 'sphere' (āyatana) of experience of which these form no part. This 'domain' or 'sphere' of experience is nirvāṇa. It may also be referred to as the 'unconditioned' (asaṁskṛta/asaṁkhata) or 'unconditioned realm' (asaṁskṛta-/asaṁkhata-dhātu) in contrast to the shifting, unstable, conditioned realms of the round of rebirth. For certain Abhidharma traditions, at the moment of awakening, at the moment of the extinguishing of the fires of greed, hatred, and delusion, the mind knows this unconditioned realm directly, In the technical terminology of the Abhidharma, nirvana can be said to be the object of consciousness at the moment of awakening when it sees the four truths. Thus in the moment of awakening When all craving and attachments are relinquished, one experiences the profoundest and ultimate truth about the world, and that experience is not of 'a nothing' —the mere absence of greed, hatred, and delusion— but of what can be termed the 'unconditioned'.

We can, then, understand nirvāṇa from three points of view: (1) it is the extinguishing of the defilements of greed, hatred, and delusion; (2) it is the final condition of the Buddha and arhats after death consequent upon the extinction of the defilements; (3) it is the unconditioned realm known at the moment of awakening. The critical question becomes the exact definition of the ontological status of (2) and (3). The earlier tradition tends to shy away from such definition, although, as we have seen, it is insistent on one point: one cannot say that the arhat after death exists, does not exist, both exists and does not exist, neither exists nor does not exist. The ontological status of nirvāṇa thus defies neat categorization and is 'undetermined' (avyākṛta/avyākata). None the less the followers of Sarvastivada Abhidharma argue that nirvana should be regarded as 'real' (dravya), while followers of the Theravada state that it should not be said to be 'non-existence' (abhāva). But for the Sautrantikas, even this is to say too much: one should not say more than that nirvana is the absence of the defilements. With the development of the Mahayana philosophical schools of Madhyamaka and Yogacara we find attempts to articulate the ontology of nirvāṇa in different terms — the logic of 'emptiness' (śūnyatā) and non-duality (advaya).

In the face of this some early Western scholarship concluded that there was no consensus in Buddhist thought on the nature of nirvāṇa, or persisted in arguing either that nirvana was mere annihilation or that it was some form of eternal bliss. If one examines Buddhist writings one will find material that can be interpreted in isolation to support the view that nirvana amounts to annihilation (the five aggregates of physical and mental phenomena that constitute a being are gone and the arhat is no longer reborn), and material to support the view that it is an eternal reality. But this is not the point; the Buddhist tradition knows this. The reason why both kinds of material are there is not because the Buddhist tradition could not make up its mind. For, as we have seen, the tradition is clear on one point: nirvana, as the postmortem condition of the Buddha and arhats, cannot be characterized as non-existence, but nor can it be characterized as existence. In fact to characterize it in either of these ways is to fall foul of one of the two basic wrong views (dṛṣṭi/diṭṭhi) between which Buddhist thought tries to steer a middle course: the annihilationist view (uccheda-vāda) and the eternalist view (śāśvata-/sassata-vāda). Thus although the schools of Buddhist thought may articulate the ontology of nirvana in different terms, one thing is clear, and that is that they are always attempting to articulate the middle way between existence and non-existence, between annihilationism and eternalism. And it is in so far as any formulation of nirvana's ontolgy is judged to have failed to maintain the delicate balance necessary to walk the middle path that it is criticized. Of course, whether any of Buddhist thought's attempts at articulating the ontology of the middle way will be judged philosophically successful is another question. And again the tradition seems on occasion to acknowledge even this. Although some of the things one might say about nirvana will certainly be more misleading than others, ultimately whatever one says will be misleading; the last resort must be the 'silence of the Aryas', the silence of the ones who have directly known the ultimate truth, for ultimately 'in such matters syllables, words and concepts are of no use'.

What remains after all is said —and not said— is the reality of nirvāṇa as the goal of the Buddhist path conveyed not so much by the attempt to articulate it philosophically but by metaphor. Thus although strictly nirvana is no place, no abode where beings can be said to exist, the metaphor of nirvana as the destination at the end of the road remains vivid: 'the country of No-Birth — the city of Nibbāna, the place of the highest happiness, peaceful, lovely, happy, without suffering, without fear, without sickness, free from old age and death'.
« Последнее редактирование: 17:12 27 Декабря 2015 от Ассаджи »
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Re: Перевод "nibbāna"
« Ответ #12 : 10:39 30 Декабря 2015 »

Досточтимый Бхиккху Бодхи пишет:

"Nibbāna, Parinibbāna

As is well known, nibbāna literally means the extinction of a fire. In popular works on Buddhism, nibbāna plain and simple is often taken to signify Nibbāna as experienced in life, parinibbāna Nibbāna attained at death. This is a misinterpretation. Long ago E.J. Thomas pointed out (possibly on the basis of a suggestion by E. Kuhn) that the prefix pari- converts a verb from the expression of a state into the expression of the achievement of an action, so that the corresponding noun nibbāna becomes the state of release, parinibbāna the attaining of that state. The distinction does not really work very well for the verb, as we find both parinibbāyati and nibbāyati used to designate the act of attaining release, but it appears to be fairly tenable in regard to the nouns. (In verse, however, we do sometimes find nibbāna used to denote the event, for example in the line pajjotass’ eva nibbānaṃ at v. 612c.) Words related to both nibbāna and parinibbāna designate both the attaining of release during life through the experience of full enlightenment, and the attaining of final release from conditioned existence through the breakup of the physical body of death. Thus, for instance, the verb parinibbāyati is commonly used to describe how a bhikkhu achieves release while alive (e.g., at II 82,20; III 54,3; IV 23,8–9, etc.) and also to indicate the passing away of the Buddha or an arahant (e.g., at I 158,23; V 161,25).

The past participle forms, nibbuta and parinibbuta, are from a different verbal root than the nouns nibbāna and parinibbāna. The former is from nir + , the latter from nir + . The noun appropriate to the participles is nibbuti, which occasionally occurs in the texts as a synonym for nibbāna but with a function that is more evocative (of tranquillity, complete rest, utter peace) than systematic. (It seems no prefixed noun parinibbuti is attested to in Pāli.) At an early time the two verb forms were conflated, so that the participle parinibbuta became the standard adjective used to denote one who has undergone parinibbāna. Like the verb, the participle is used in apposition to both the living Buddha or arahant (I 1,21, 187,8) and the deceased one (I 122,13, 158,24). Possibly, however, parinibbuta is used in relation to the living arahant only in verse, while in prose its technical use is confined to one who has expired. In sutta usage, even when the noun parinibbāna denotes the passing away of an arahant (particularly of the Buddha), it does not mean “Nibbāna after death.” It is, rather, the event of passing away undergone by one who has already attained Nibbāna during life.

The suttas distinguish between two elements of Nibbāna: the Nibbāna element with residue (sa-upādisesa-nibbānadhātu) and the Nibbāna element without residue (anupādisesa-nibbānadhātu)—the residue (upādisesa) being the compound of the five aggregates produced by prior craving and kamma (It 38–39). The former is the extinction of lust, hatred, and delusion attained by the arahant while alive; the latter is the remainderless cessation of all conditioned existence that occurs with the arahant’s death. In the commentaries the two elements of Nibbāna are respectively called kilesaparinibbāna, the quenching of defilements at the attainment of arahantship, and khandhaparinibbāna, the quenching of the continuum of aggregates with the arahant’s demise. Though the commentaries treat the two Nibbāna elements and the two kinds of parinibbāna as interchangeable and synonymous, in sutta usage it may be preferable to see the two kinds of parinibbāna as the events which give access to the two corresponding Nibbāna elements. Parinibbāna, then, is the act of quenching; nibbāna, the state of quenchedness.

To explain the philology of a term is not to settle the question of its interpretation. What exactly is to be made of the various explanations of Nibbāna given in the Nikāyas has been a subject of debate since the early days of Buddhism, with the ground divided between those who regard it as the mere extinction of defilements and cessation of existence and those who understand it as a transcendental (lokuttara) ontological reality. In SN some suttas explain Nibbāna as the destruction of lust, hatred, and delusion, which emphasizes the experiential psychological dimension; elsewhere it is called the unconditioned, which seems to place the stress on ontological transcendence. The Theravāda commentators regard Nibbāna as an unconditioned element. They hold that when Nibbāna is called the destruction of the defilements (of lust, hatred, and delusion, etc.) and the cessation of the five aggregates, this requires interpretation. Nibbāna itself, as an existent, is unborn, unmade, unbecome, unconditioned (see Ud 80–81). It is in dependence on this element (taṃ āgamma), by arriving at it, that there takes place the destruction of the defilements and release from conditioned existence. Nibbāna itself, however, is not reducible to these two events, which are, in their actual occurrence, conditioned events happening in time. On this interpretation, the two Nibbāna elements are seen as stages in the full actualization of the unconditioned Nibbāna, not simply as two discrete events.

In the present work I leave nibbāna untranslated, for the term is too rich in evocative meaning and too defiant of conceptual specification to be satisfactorily captured by any proposed English equivalent. I translate parinibbāna as “final Nibbāna,” since the noun form usually means the passing away of an arahant (or the Buddha), final release from conditioned existence; sometimes, however, its meaning is ambiguous, as in the statement “the Dhamma [is] taught by the Blessed One for the sake of final Nibbāna without clinging (anupādāparinibbānatthaṃ)” (IV 48,78), which can mean either Nibbāna during life or the full cessation of existence.

The verb parinibbāyati perhaps could have been incorporated into English with “nibbanize,” which would be truest to the Pāli, but this would be too much at variance with current conventions. Thus when the verb refers to the demise of the Buddha or an arahant, I render it “attains final Nibbāna,” but when it designates the extinguishing of defilements by one who attains enlightenment, I render it simply “attains Nibbāna.” We also find a personal noun form, parinibbāyı, which I render “an attainer of Nibbāna,” as it can be construed in either sense. In prose the past participle parinibbuta, used as a doctrinal term, always occurs with reference to a deceased arahant and so it is translated “has attained final Nibbāna.” In verse, it can take on either meaning; when it describes a living arahant (or the Buddha) I translate it more freely as “fully quenched.” The unprefixed form nibbuta does not always carry the same technical implications as parinibbuta, but can mean simply “peaceful, satisfied, at ease,” without necessarily establishing that the one so described has attained Nibbāna. At I 24,11 and II 279,8 it has this implication; at I 236,21 it seems to mean simply peaceful; at III 43, in the compound tadaṅganibbuta, it definitely does not imply Nibbāna, for the point there is that the monk has only approximated to the real attainment of the goal. Cognates of parinibbāna appear in colloquial speech with a nondoctrinal sense; for example, both parinibbāyati and parinibbuta are used to describe the taming of a horse (at MN I 446,8–10). But even here they seem to be used with a “loaded meaning,” since the horse simile is introduced to draw a comparison with a monk who attains arahantship."

http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/connected-discourses-buddha/introduction
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